Wootz Shamshir

Bryce · 20th November 2017, 07:20 AM

G'day Guys,

I have recently acquired my first shamshir. It has a large heavy blade of kirk narduban wootz which is 36mm wide at the hilt and 840mm long and weighs 1050g. It has engraved "Shah Abbas" and "Lion" cartouches.

Can anyone tell me what the "face" peering over the lion's back represents? Is it something to do with the sun?

Cheers,
Bryce

OsobistGB · 20th November 2017, 10:53 PM

Congratulations for the wonderful shamshir.The second cartouches contains an image of a Lion and Sun and and is typically a Persian sealing mark placed by the master in the middle of the 19th century.

Battara · 21st November 2017, 01:42 AM

To me it does look like the sun, which is a Persian motif.

The blade looks like a ladder pattern wootz. Very nice.

Kubur · 21st November 2017, 01:53 AM

OMG I had to look if I have still mine, yours is so similar!
It's what they call a Syrian/Badawi sayf with a very nice Persian blade.

Jim McDougall · 21st November 2017, 05:45 AM

That really does seem like an outstanding blade, and most unusually so for these type of Persian trade blades. I personally know little of metallurgy in these wootz patterns, but the examples of these 'Assad Adullah' blades I have seen are usually with channels or fullers, wider blade and typically of lesser quality wootz patterns.

According to the brilliant article by Oliver Pinchot, "The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah", ("Arms Collecting", The Journal of the Canadian Arms Collecting Society, Vol. 40, #4, Feb. 2002), these kinds of blades bearing a cartouche and a pictogram representing 'Assad Allah' (=Lion of God), began appearing late 18th and into 19th century.

This represented a marketing shift for Persian blades into varied markets, particularly to those in Arabia, where they were highly favored over others.
It is noted that among possible reasons for the continued use of the name of this famed sword smith of centuries earlier, one potentially feasible is a tradition recognizing Assad Allah and his contributions to Persian sword guild.
An exemption from taxes for 300 years said to have been granted by Shah Abbas (1567-1628) for the swordsmiths guild, may have prompted this commemorative use of the Assad Allah name.
Aside from this tradition, the imbuement of quality certainly was present as well.

It is noted also that the Kirk Narduban term was a transliteration from Turkish 'kirk' (= forty) and 'merdeven' (=steps/stairs) , while more commonly termed ' The Forty Steps of Mohammed'.

A very, very nice example of sayf Badawi!

Bryce · 21st November 2017, 09:41 PM

G'day Guys,

Thank you for your replies. This large, heavy, plain blade fits the description of earlier made shamshir blades. If the Lion pictogram began appearing in the mid to Late 18th century, does this mean this sword was made then in the style of earlier blades, or was the Lion pictogram in use earlier than mid to late 18th century? Does anyone know of the earliest dated example with the lion pictogram?

Cheers,
Bryce

ALEX · 22nd November 2017, 09:43 AM

Bryce,
I agree with you regarding the the blade being earlier form, 18th century is appropriate estimate. The lion cartouche is original to the blade. Absolutely magnificent shamshir with top quality beautiful wootz blade.

Roland_M · 22nd November 2017, 05:23 PM

A really nice blade, congratulations!

Roland

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 22nd November 2017, 05:39 PM

These multi grooved weapons are related to the Tears of the Afflicted blades are they not ?

See

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ears+afflicted

for detailed descriptions of this style.

20th November 2017, 07:20 AM	#1
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 186	Wootz Shamshir G'day Guys, I have recently acquired my first shamshir. It has a large heavy blade of kirk narduban wootz which is 36mm wide at the hilt and 840mm long and weighs 1050g. It has engraved "Shah Abbas" and "Lion" cartouches. Can anyone tell me what the "face" peering over the lion's back represents? Is it something to do with the sun? Cheers, Bryce Attached Images

21st November 2017, 05:45 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	That really does seem like an outstanding blade, and most unusually so for these type of Persian trade blades. I personally know little of metallurgy in these wootz patterns, but the examples of these 'Assad Adullah' blades I have seen are usually with channels or fullers, wider blade and typically of lesser quality wootz patterns. According to the brilliant article by Oliver Pinchot, "The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah", ("Arms Collecting", The Journal of the Canadian Arms Collecting Society, Vol. 40, #4, Feb. 2002), these kinds of blades bearing a cartouche and a pictogram representing 'Assad Allah' (=Lion of God), began appearing late 18th and into 19th century. This represented a marketing shift for Persian blades into varied markets, particularly to those in Arabia, where they were highly favored over others. It is noted that among possible reasons for the continued use of the name of this famed sword smith of centuries earlier, one potentially feasible is a tradition recognizing Assad Allah and his contributions to Persian sword guild. An exemption from taxes for 300 years said to have been granted by Shah Abbas (1567-1628) for the swordsmiths guild, may have prompted this commemorative use of the Assad Allah name. Aside from this tradition, the imbuement of quality certainly was present as well. It is noted also that the Kirk Narduban term was a transliteration from Turkish 'kirk' (= forty) and 'merdeven' (=steps/stairs) , while more commonly termed ' The Forty Steps of Mohammed'. A very, very nice example of sayf Badawi! Last edited by Jim McDougall; 22nd November 2017 at 04:27 PM.

22nd November 2017, 05:23 PM	#8
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Sound of a Shamshir A really nice blade, congratulations! Roland Last edited by Roland_M; 23rd November 2017 at 12:55 PM.

20th November 2017, 10:53 PM	#2
OsobistGB Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 94	Congratulations for the wonderful shamshir.The second cartouches contains an image of a Lion and Sun and and is typically a Persian sealing mark placed by the master in the middle of the 19th century.

21st November 2017, 01:42 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	To me it does look like the sun, which is a Persian motif. The blade looks like a ladder pattern wootz. Very nice.

21st November 2017, 01:53 AM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	OMG I had to look if I have still mine, yours is so similar! It's what they call a Syrian/Badawi sayf with a very nice Persian blade.

21st November 2017, 09:41 PM	#6
Bryce Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: North Queensland, Australia Posts: 186	G'day Guys, Thank you for your replies. This large, heavy, plain blade fits the description of earlier made shamshir blades. If the Lion pictogram began appearing in the mid to Late 18th century, does this mean this sword was made then in the style of earlier blades, or was the Lion pictogram in use earlier than mid to late 18th century? Does anyone know of the earliest dated example with the lion pictogram? Cheers, Bryce

22nd November 2017, 09:43 AM	#7
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Bryce, I agree with you regarding the the blade being earlier form, 18th century is appropriate estimate. The lion cartouche is original to the blade. Absolutely magnificent shamshir with top quality beautiful wootz blade.

22nd November 2017, 05:39 PM	#9
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	These multi grooved weapons are related to the Tears of the Afflicted blades are they not ? See http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ears+afflicted for detailed descriptions of this style.