Bali Keris for classification

[VVV]

I would be grateful if those of you who knows about Balinese (or Lombok?) classifications could help me with this Keris (dapur, pamor etc.)?
Please note that it has a Pedang-like pucuk.

Michael

[Marcokeris]

Unusual pamor.
Is it possible to see the ( Bali?) hit?
Selut's stone seems to be mineral stone (or glass?) with a piece of coloured paper on the bottom.

[VVV]

It's a Gerantiman.

Michael

[Marcokeris]

Beautiful Lombok hit. It is made by thin stripes of metal (silver) that weaved their shapes one in the other on a section with changeable diameter (...up to 1.000.0000 waves on 1 m.q. .... the same of silk isfahan carpet )

The Naga on the base of blade could be done in a later time

[VVV]

Thanks for your comments Marco!

How do you know that the hilt is Lombok, and not Bali?
On the Naga, the tongue is flexible. Is that usual for a later Naga?
Below two additional detail pictures for your evaluation and comments.

Michael

[Marcokeris]

Michael
The hilt could be a Bali one too.
I said Lombok because in Bali is easy to listen bali people speak about gerantiman handle as " a Lombok piece" ... probably because gerantiman is very usual in Lombok keris.
Sometimes the tongue in naga's keris is flexible (the same always in old "Giava classic" naga wood work)

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by VVV

Please note that it has a Pedang-like pucuk.

Michael

Hi Michael,
The uniqueness of your lombok/bali keris lies in the dhapur, keris with pedang (sword) "sabet-suduk" details. I think, there is no "pakem" name on this keris. So you may call it based on its details.

It is not usual, keris with details of pedang (sword). And in your keris, with pedang "sabet-suduk" (whip and stab, correct me if I'm wrong). With unusual motive too: naga headed garuda..

Ganjawulung

[VVV]

Hi Ganja,

Thanks for your comments.
Do you know anything about the symbolism/attributes of a Garuda-Naga?
I have also been told that another name of it is a Naga Lar Seluman Kenci (sorry if the description words are in the wrong order as my Indonesian language abilities are mostly used for ordering food?).

Michael

[drdavid]

According to Karsten's krisdisk

If the neck of the Naga is equipped with wings, which is rarely seen, it is called Dapor Lar Munda (Lar= wing and Munda=snake)

Could that be what we are seeing here or am I being a bit thick. It is not clear in the krisdisk as to which geographical keris region this name applies
cheers
DrD

[VVV]

Doc,

So it says.
I am not sure if the visible teeth and tongue or the wings is what decides the name in case both are there at the same time?

Michael

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by drdavid

According to Karsten's krisdisk

Could that be what we are seeing here or am I being a bit thick. It is not clear in the krisdisk as to which geographical keris region this name applies
cheers
DrD

Dear doctor,
I don't think that "Lar Munda" is the correct spelling nor the correct term. What I know is, dhapur "Manglar Munga" is three luks keris, with ornament in the gandhik or front lower base -- elephant with wings. Some people called this dhapur as "Gajah Manglar" (elephant with wings). Yes, it is a rare dhapur... But Lar Munda is unknown.

"Lar" is a javanese word for "wing". But "munda", I don't think this is a correct word, neither in Indonesian nor Javanese language.

Ganjawulung

[VVV]

Thanks Ganja for taking your time and explaining the details!
Obviously my source for Kenci/Kentji was wrong as I was told that it meant fang.
I am a bit surprised on Naga as a Chinese influence.
This is originally a Sanskrit word, and an Indian mythological creature.
That's why I thought it was more connected to the Hindu snakedragon than the Chinese dragons also in Indonesia?
But maybe there are several explanations to the same symbol?

Michael

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by VVV

Do you know anything about the symbolism/attributes of a Garuda-Naga?

Dear Michael,
As far as I know, motives in keris symbolized the influence of certain culture or cultures from outside Java in their past history. As in Cirebon (Islamic kingdom in West-Central Java, in 15th century). The had their royal chariot, named as "paksi-naga-liman" (garuda/bird-naga-elephant) which was the ornaments of such symbolism. According to the reliable source, paksi-naga-liman symbolized the influence of three external cultures: Egypt (paksi), China (naga), India (liman or elephant). Please see this book "Budaya Bahari: Sebuah Apresiasi di Cirebon" (Maritime Culture: An Appreciation in Cirebon) by Prof Dr Rokhmin Dahuri MS (2001, State Printing of Indonesia).
You may see these three cultures influenced very much Cirebon kingdom, from the architecture of their old palaces (Kanoman and Kasepuhan in Cirebon), and also from their old ornaments, their expression of arts. Cirebon was an Islamic kingdom, but their anchestors were from Segaluh and Pajajaran (Buddha and Hindhu kingdoms in West Java). And their strongest sultan, Sunan Gunung Jati was half Middle east blood, or Egyptian blood. But had Chinese wife, Ong Tin Nio from the Ming dynasty (the tomb of Ong Tin Nio is still existed in Cirebon, in the Gunung Jati cemetery complex).
[QUOTE=VVV
I have also been told that another name of it is a Naga Lar Seluman Kenci (sorry if the description words are in the wrong order as my Indonesian language abilities are mostly used for ordering food?).
Michael[/QUOTE]
Naga = great snake, dragon, symbolism of Chinese influence. Lar = literally means "wing". Seluman or siluman = invisible creature. Kenci? I don't think that this word exist in Indonesian or Javanese language.

I hope this will help you, Mike..

Ganjawulung