Very odd Sudanese sword for discussion

[Iain]

This finished recently at Christies, fetching an enormous sum well above the estimate.

It is a very unusual sword with odd finials on the pommel and guard, which if removed, would resemble very closely a viking style hilt.

Description from Christies as follows:

A LONG SWORD IN THE NAME OF MUHAMMAD AL-MAHDI
SUDAN, 19TH CENTURY
With straight blade inscribed in loose naskh script with the Profession of Faith and the name of the Sudanese leader Muhammad al-Mahdi (La Illah allah Muhammad Rasul All Nasr min allah wa Fath Qarib Muhammad al-Mahdi Khalifa Rasul Allah "There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is his Prophet, help from Allah and present Victory"), one side engraved with a lion within a roundel and pseudo-calligraphic medallions, the hilt with an engraved lattice of quatrefoils, the leather sheath with cowry tassels
43¾in. (111cm.) long

I am having trouble extracting a large image from the Christie's website, but here's the link.
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/a...f-80e8fe6fde47

It is completely unlike the kaskara of the region and not particularly resembling anything else I can think off. There is perhaps a slight resemblance to the hilt in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12979

[A.alnakkas]

This is a very lovely piece. Imho, it could be similar to Rsword's type but with abit of added creativity? :-) it belonged to the same person so it seems.

[Mefidk]

This is the highest res image I can upload directly.
Very interesting sword. The blade seems to have dimensions and shape typical of the kaskara trade blades, but of course the inscription is very interesting. The highly decorated and oddly styled hilt is extremely unusual to say the least. I'm having a little difficulty fitting the inscription and the rich hilt together since richly decorated swords are not a general feature of that era as far as I'm aware - but pretty much anything is possible if it was a gift.
Shame we cannot see the other side. I asked Christies for more pictures, but they never came - maybe they knew I did not have 15,000 GBP to spend

[Iain]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

This is a very lovely piece. Imho, it could be similar to Rsword's type but with abit of added creativity? :-) it belonged to the same person so it seems.

Hi Lofty,

Could well be another piece out of the Ali Dinar group. It could be something collected earlier than that as well (Dinar died in 1916).

My first thoughts when I saw it were the odd brass hilt kaskara like this one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14711 Which seem to be presentation pieces.

However this item seems to have a very good blade and the brass looks better aged...

It is a bit odd to me the auction had no provenance attached, yet it reached such a price.

The oddest feature to me seems to be the spikes coming off the guard - has anyone seen anything similar?

EDIT: Thanks Chris for the higher resolution image! Very helpful. I had also requested more images from Christies but never received any. I particularly wanted to see the lion mark.

[TVV]

Am I the only person who suspects a modern repro viking sword hilt, with the odd spikes added to make the piece look a little more genuine and "africanized"?

Teodor

[Timo Nieminen]

My first thought was that it appears to be built from a sword like this one.

(There are some swords like this made in India that are much cheaper than the Del Tin one above.)

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
According to the Christie's catalogue, as I understand it, this item was part of a collection of Arms and Armour that belonged to Heinrich Schliemann. This sword was the last item of weaponry under that title i.e. 'Arms and Armour from the Collection of Heinrich Schliemann, the Discoverer of Troy'. Other items assigned to this collection were also in the same sale.
Regards,
Norman.

P.S. From Archeologist to Time Traveller.

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by Timo Nieminen

My first thought was that it appears to be built from a sword like this one.

(There are some swords like this made in India that are much cheaper than the Del Tin one above.)

A very good point.

[David R]

Ouch! This does not look good....

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
What disturbs me most about this is the provenance now attached to this item. If enough "experts" quote previous sale history, well, we all know what tends to happen.
Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

What Norman says rings most true, the sale catalogues of auctions as well as often highly regarded dealers are quite often cited as supporting sources for identifying and classifying weapons. The reason obviously is based on the presumption of reputation and constant exposure to many variants and anamolous examples which exceed the published resources typically referred to.

I find this most disturbing as I have always regarded this particular auction house as remarkably distinguished, and thier assessments quite accurate. It seems that in recent years with the dramatic changes in geoeconomic circumstances, there have been huge changes in arms collecting related more to investing than in bonified collecting. The prices being realized in some sales are in many cases beyond belief, and most disturbing is that many of the items involved are either overvalued or questionably assessed, with authenticity equally compromised.

Regarding this particular case my questions would be, first why would a Mahdist sword, particularly of this stature, be in the collection of Heinrich Schliemann? A German businessman who was during the time of the Mahdiyya involved in excavations in Hissarlik, Turkey, with the Ottomans clearly at odds with these movements in Sudan. It seems that Schliemann was himself at some odds with the Turkish government with his own circumstances, so unlikely this might have been something captured or taken, and somehow presented to him for some reason. He died in 1890, which would have precluded any addition to his collection at that point.

Aside from the provenance, in returning to the sword itself, it seems quite possible this might be an authentic blade, with the only concerns being with the described lion in roundel marking, which I presume to be the Lion of God symbol used on the Assad Adullah trade blades, typically on shamshir or sabre blades. I personally have never seen this kind of 'trade' marking on a broadsword blade.
The hilt is of course perplexing especially with the remarkable similarity to the Del Tin production, which seems to closely follow the Viking type hilt mentioned. The interesting projections from the crossguard recall similar seen on early Omani sa'if (proto-kattara) and it is of course impossible to say if this influence was in mind in producing this anomaly.

I must admit being disappointed at this outcome, as I had hoped for the possibility of an interesting variant to the typically seen kaskara and broadswords of the Sudan. Personally I would consider this situation with this particular auction as much an amomaly as the sword itself, as I have often been well served with the descriptions they have provided me over many years.

[Tim Simmons]

I find it hard to believe even a silver hilted Kaskara being worth much more than a £1000. I have heard that the "market" is often prejudice and ignorant or at least bias and ill-informed which we see quite often with the commonest items finding high prices.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi,
What disturbs me most about this is the provenance now attached to this item. If enough "experts" quote previous sale history, well, we all know what tends to happen.
Regards,
Norman.

I agree completely. The curious thing to me is, as Jim notes, how this ended up being collected by Heinrich Schliemann - if it even was? Very, very odd...

[colin henshaw]

Flipping through an old sale catalogue, I found this - described as "a fine Spanish exhibition sword, in the style of the 15th century". Perhaps the inspiration for the hilt appendages....??

[kronckew]

the hilt looks like the indians took the fresh from the mold pieces and did not cut off the sprues, just flattened them a bit & added a few decorative lines.

you can fool some of the people ...

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Iain

This finished recently at Christies, fetching an enormous sum well above the estimate.

It is a very unusual sword with odd finials on the pommel and guard, which if removed, would resemble very closely a viking style hilt.

Description from Christies as follows:


I am having trouble extracting a large image from the Christie's website, but here's the link.
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/a...f-80e8fe6fde47

It is completely unlike the kaskara of the region and not particularly resembling anything else I can think off. There is perhaps a slight resemblance to the hilt in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12979

Salaams Iain, This is indeed a confusing issue. I only have one book on The Vikings so I had to turn to the web for details. There I discovered that they were marauding and trading in the Mediterranean between about 800 and 1000 AD. They even reached Baghdad. Perhaps their sword style migrated and was frozen in certain parts ...Its a long shot (from a longboat...ha ! ) It is not impossible for the Omani Battle Sword to have diffused or for designs other than the Omani style to have morphed from what I suggest was "from" the original blueprint seen at the Topkapi ... The Abbasid Sword.

Counter to that argument please see~ http://www.thisisgabes.com/images/st...per_lowres.pdf where the geometry of Taureg artefacts is discussed in particular tentpoles and the majic square system where it becomes obvious that such sword hilt geometry could indeed be present.

On the other hand we may be looking at a total fake.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams ~ Note to Library.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note. Quote"Takoba From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Takoba (also takuba or takouba) is the sword that is used across the western Sahel and among ethnic groups such as the Tuareg, the Hausa, the Fulani. It usually measures about one meter. Takoba blades can exhibit several notable features, including three or more hand-ground fuller grooves and a rounded point. The word, takoba, is derived from Hausa takobi, but is also used among other peoples Tuareg and the Fulani. Takoba were also commonly manufactured in Hausa city states such as Kano.

Since the Tuareg have an aversion to touching iron, the takoba's handle, like many iron implements, is covered in bronze or other material.

There is much debate about whether the takoba was used only by the imúšaɣ or warrior class or whether it could be borne by vassals.
As with most crafted items used by the Tuareg, takoba are crafted by the ìnhædʻæn (singular énhædʻ) caste, who are of a different ethnicity from the imúšaɣ and speak Ténet, a secret language. The imúšaɣ believe that the ìnhædʻæn have magical powers, which some theorize to be associated with their traditional roles as metalworkers and to the imúšaɣ aversion to both metalworking and touching iron". Unquote.

[Iain]

Hi Ibrahiim, the sword in question is certainly not Tuareg.

By the way I really need to update my write up on Wikipedia

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Iain

Hi Ibrahiim, the sword in question is certainly not Tuareg.

By the way I really need to update my write up on Wikipedia

Salaams ~ Aha ! Someone paid a lot of money for a ...fake! (they ought to have read your description first)...!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Iain]

Hi Ibrahiim, this may well be a case of something not being entirely a fake, but simple put together to please the buyer. There have been other ornate kaskara style swords to come out of the post Mahdist war period. One was discussed here a little while back and the particular lot also included some odd throwing knives that also looked to be imitations.

Odd stuff and nothing I'd want to collect - but obviously someone did!

[Alberto]

Interesting thread and a fine guide to the potential buyers: Czerny's proposes this same "intersting Kaskara" on March, the 29th, 2014, extimation Euros 1000 to 1500 and they say it was sold on 2012 for £ 12000 (Christie's auction details given) without expressing any doubt about its age and originality but without explaining as well why their extimation is so much lower..... what a bargain!

[Tim Simmons]

Seeing this thread again is well worthwhile. A tragedy, I hope I am not the only one but having another review of the "antique" The brass scabbard fittings do not seem to be right either, the colour just does not appear correct for 19th century brass fittings? Staining is not difficult. The blade could be old? The handle is bronze rather than brass, least said the better.

We are so lucky here.

[Rick]

So, this sword is currently listed once again.
Time to close the thread .

[Andrew]

Thread locked. Active auction.