Lobster Tail Helmet

Cathey · 30th July 2018, 08:33 AM

Hi Guys

A friend of mine recently purchased a lobster tail helmet that is quite different from the three I already have in my collection. I have assumed it is munitions quality as the lobster tail is not articulated; however some of my reference books refer to this style of lobster tail as being eastern rather than European. Apart from the one piece tail, it also has an unusual cut in the ear piece.

I have been photographing some of my friends collection and as I have not handled one like this before, thought I would post it here for further comment.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

corrado26 · 30th July 2018, 11:08 AM

As the lobster tail is made from one single part and no parts are moveable I cannot see the sence of the three strabs at the insite of the tail - very strange ......
corrado26

kronckew · 30th July 2018, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

As the lobster tail is made from one single part and no parts are moveable I cannot see the sence of the three strabs at the insite of the tail - very strange ......
corrado26

Stiffeners?

Victrix · 30th July 2018, 01:08 PM

These lobster tail helmets were used over a very wide geographical area at a time of intense armament and conflict. They were derived from the Ottoman cicek helmets which were adopted by the lighter Hungarian (medieval territory encompassing a number of nationalities in those days) hussar cavalry. They were then adopted by the Poles (as seen in their famous heavy winged hussar cavalry). The Austrians and Germans adopted them for use in the 30 year war where they were called Zischägge. Then the Dutch and the English (Civil War) adopted them. It can therefore be difficult to assign them to any particular geographic area when they are of a generic shape without identifying maker or arsenal marks.

The fact that the skull piece is rounded, relatively shallow, and consists of two halves riveted together, suggests that it’s a British helmet rather than continental European or E.European. But it’s difficult to tell with such a generic shape. There were heavier sappers’s versions as well which were probably more munitions quality.

There seems to be some shiny remains of gilding at the seam on the back of the helmet? Also, in terms of general interest I think the Prussian pickelhaube developed out of the zischägge.

fernando · 30th July 2018, 02:03 PM

Victrix, may i suggest that you send those rather elucidative pictures to Cathey by PM.

.

Victrix · 30th July 2018, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Victrix, may i suggest that you send those rather elucidative pictures to Cathey by PM.

.

Done! Cathey you have PMs.

fernando · 30th July 2018, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

Stiffeners?

So they surely are, Wayne.

Helleri · 7th August 2018, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

As the lobster tail is made from one single part and no parts are moveable I cannot see the sence of the three strabs at the insite of the tail - very strange ......
corrado26

I'm thinking this is an economy helmet or a rush job. Armor was made in all grades, for all price points just about. Articulated plates vs. A solid piece that looks right from a distance... The latter is probably less of a time sink to make. I think the leather straps are just on the fly spacer bars for rivets that were too tall and there was no time to cut down. Those little square bits are likely what keeps those rivets from tearing through the leather and a rattling around.

30th July 2018, 08:33 AM	#1
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 282	Lobster Tail Helmet Hi Guys A friend of mine recently purchased a lobster tail helmet that is quite different from the three I already have in my collection. I have assumed it is munitions quality as the lobster tail is not articulated; however some of my reference books refer to this style of lobster tail as being eastern rather than European. Apart from the one piece tail, it also has an unusual cut in the ear piece. I have been photographing some of my friends collection and as I have not handled one like this before, thought I would post it here for further comment. Cheers Cathey and Rex Attached Images

30th July 2018, 01:08 PM	#4
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 712	These lobster tail helmets were used over a very wide geographical area at a time of intense armament and conflict. They were derived from the Ottoman cicek helmets which were adopted by the lighter Hungarian (medieval territory encompassing a number of nationalities in those days) hussar cavalry. They were then adopted by the Poles (as seen in their famous heavy winged hussar cavalry). The Austrians and Germans adopted them for use in the 30 year war where they were called Zischägge. Then the Dutch and the English (Civil War) adopted them. It can therefore be difficult to assign them to any particular geographic area when they are of a generic shape without identifying maker or arsenal marks. The fact that the skull piece is rounded, relatively shallow, and consists of two halves riveted together, suggests that it’s a British helmet rather than continental European or E.European. But it’s difficult to tell with such a generic shape. There were heavier sappers’s versions as well which were probably more munitions quality. There seems to be some shiny remains of gilding at the seam on the back of the helmet? Also, in terms of general interest I think the Prussian pickelhaube developed out of the zischägge. Last edited by fernando; 30th July 2018 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Links to active auction sites not allowed

30th July 2018, 11:08 AM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,205	As the lobster tail is made from one single part and no parts are moveable I cannot see the sence of the three strabs at the insite of the tail - very strange ...... corrado26

30th July 2018, 02:03 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Victrix, may i suggest that you send those rather elucidative pictures to Cathey by PM. .