Nicely carved Madurese hilt with Chinese Motif

RSWORD · 2nd September 2005, 11:26 PM

I would appreciate thoughts and comments in regards to the motif that are on this Madurese hilt. The carving is quite good but what I find interesting are the strong Chinese motif. While this is probably not surprising given the number of Chinese throughout the archepelego I cannot recall an example of a Keris hilt with such motif. The first two pictures illustrate a nicely carved dragon with crown(?) on head with a bird attacking it or flying overhead. The dragon reminds me quite a bit of Chinese style dragon. There is also a picture of the base of the ukiran which is usually left uncarved but in this example it is carved with the swastika motif found in Buddhist art. The last picture illustrates nice "rope" motif not unlike what you might find on a Scottish dirk hilt but I have seen this motif in Malaysian work. I am wondering if this was simply made to order for a Chinese customer or perhaps Chinese carved to bring back to the mainland to sell as a curio.

Rick · 2nd September 2005, 11:55 PM

Hi Rick,
This example has the swastika motif and the flower filled panels suggest almost a 'Rose Medallion" style . It was suggested to me by another member that this Madura hilt may also have been carved to the Chinese aesthetic .

I also wonder if the bird above your dragon might be the phoenix .

Philip · 3rd September 2005, 12:59 AM

Rick,
Nice example! These motifs are seen on keris handles on occasion; yours is quite a good specimen of the type. Considering that many of the Chinese who settled in Indonesia were merchants and craftsmen, and more than a few of them were purveyors of luxury goods, you can see why the Chinese aesthetic would acquire a certain cache. At the very least, people tend to be attracted to novelty, and foreign styles come into vogue in many cultures for this reason.

The "rope design" you mention is indeed common on Scottish dirk hilts, and is reflected in many forms of medieval Irish and Scandinavian art. It is also found in Islamic motifs, and is generally referred to as the "endless knot" . This theme appears frequently in the Far East as well, and is regarded as a Buddhistic element. The design is interpreted by some to represent the Buddha's intestines. (Just as swastikas are believed to be the marks present on his footprints).

On a functional note, I've seen the Chinese influence on keris manifest in an extreme and highly unusual example: DOUBLE KERIS FITTING INTO ONE SCABBARD! Rick, remember the dealer I took you to see in LA when you visited last? Over ten yr. ago, he showed me this. The mounts were Javanese. Each hilt was half-sectioned, so even the mendak or ferrule was flat on one side. The flat of one grip had a little mortise which nested into a matching tenon on the other grip so that both daggers would "lock" together when side-by-side. The scabbard had a thin divider to separate the blades.

This double keris was otherwise of typical size and dimension for Javanese. A Chinese martial artist would undoubtedly consider them too insubstantial, so I believe the set was made for an Indonesian who practiced a double-blade form and was inspired by the Chinese hudiedao or "butterfly knife".

This double weapon was rather plainly dressed, it had none of the rich motifs that your hilt has. Looking back, I kick myself for not making an offer on the piece.

lordraphael · 3rd September 2005, 01:42 AM

I was surprised at the dragon on the hilt.
It doesn't look Chinese to me.
I'm surprised that it really closely resembles a dragon from European lore, with its reptilian head and bat-like wings.
While European dragons probably got their bat-like wings from later medieval devils, who in turn owe them to Chinese genies and demons (early European devils had feathered wings), I've never seen a Chinese dragon with wings (though they do fly).

Raffaele

John · 3rd September 2005, 01:54 AM

Being an ethnic Chinese myself, I once commissioned 2 kerises in Madura, one with the "double dragon persuing pearl" motif carved on the crosspiece (wrangka/sampir) to complement a Naga Pengantin blade which turned out quite well and no doubt there are some Chinese influences here and there given the many Chinese in the archipelago and doing similar things along the way. But the 2 pieces have been sold before I took any pictures.

But hilts here don't seemed to look quite Chinese...

BluErf · 3rd September 2005, 02:59 AM

Here're some links to images of Chinese dragons.

http://www.mythicalrealm.com/images-...gonRampent.jpg
http://www.mythicalrealm.com/images-...dragonroof.jpg
http://www.mythicalrealm.com/images-2/chineseleili.jpg
http://www.crystalinks.com/chinadragons.html

Chinese dragons have deer antler-like horns, a large bulbous nose with a pair of long feelers, a generous beard and 'sideburns', and a high forehead. Long and lanky, with 4 limbs with large claws. No wings. Sometimes, they have a flame-like tail.

So I don't think its a Chinese dragon on the hilt. In fact, I thought the dragon was wearing a European crown. Dutch influence?

In the 2nd hilt, the floral motifs are arranged in framed panels, which reminds me of baroque European aesthetics. However, I thought the floral motifs are distinctively N. Coast Java/Madura/Bali though, with that 'flame' or 'leaf' motif. See motif on hilt which I believe comes from coastal Java.

The swastika panels at the bottom of both hilts do have some Chinese look to it, like the pierced-through panels under the eaves of the roof in some Chinese architecture. But then again, the swastika probably originated from India.

I think Chinese influences exist in the keris arts. The best example I know is of a Javanese keris with Chinese lacquer work on the sheath, depicting a Chinese house, a couple of Chinese people and a Chinese pine tree (ya, how many 'Chinese' am I going to use here

). This keris graces the cover of Karsten Jensen's keris book.

The other example is in the Invincible Keris. There is a Malay keris with an ivory parrot hilt. That scabbard has Chinese mother-of-pearl inlaid square motifs and striped sheath stem.

Another example I remember is the 'curly-worly' Chinese cloud motif sometimes found on textiles and the repoussed silver covering of pedang hilts coming from Cirebon. Anyone has pictures?

The last possible example I remember is in John's collection. Its an ivory hilt with deep carved floral panels. Maybe if John would post pictures?

RSWORD · 3rd September 2005, 04:45 AM

Thanks for all the feedback thusfar. Rick, thank you for sharing your example. I like your thoughts about the bird possibly representing the Pheonix. I have a feeling that your and my example do exhibit strong Chinese influences.

Philip,

Yes, I remember that shop well. Lot's of goodies but the darn guy wouldn't sell me anything I was interested in. I do remember you talking about that double Keris and how much you kick yourself for not picking it up.

In regards to the dragon, I am still not convinced that it is not Chinese inspired. I am attaching a picture of a scabbard mount from a Chinese Peidao in which the dragon shares more similarities with this keris than not. Also, the swastika motif and rope motif suggest strong Buddhist elements. Either it is a strange amalgamation of styles carved onto the handle for no reason other than visual appeal or it had some intent to be recognized by individuals who would recognize said symbols. I am also attaching a picture of a scabbard of a Chinese Jian in which the entire scabbard has been carved with the swastika motif, amongst other things.

John · 3rd September 2005, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

The last possible example I remember is in John's collection. Its an ivory hilt with deep carved floral panels. Maybe if John would post pictures?

Certainly Blu.

I'm no expert in Chinese motifs but for the sake of this interesting discussion, the swastika is commonly seen in Chinese motifs (but also Japanese, Korean etc?) as a Buddhist element (also bearing in mind the Buddhist Borobudur in Java is a millenium old) but also an import to the Chinese and the rest as BluErf also surmised and the strange dragon with wing is not something I've seen in anything Chinese thus far but there may be the remote possibility of the strange amalgamation of things...

nechesh · 5th September 2005, 11:06 PM

Hi Rick. Well, i must admit i have not seen this motif used all that often in keris hilts, but Rick, the Elder (

) has shown us at least one other and where there are 2 there are probably more. I only made reference to Spirit of Wood examples to show that this motif has been accepted as a common part of Malay culture for some time so that it's use on your Madurese hilt doesn't necessarily indicate that it was made for an ethnic Chinese customer.
When i first saw the dragon i had the same impression as lordraphael. With it's bat-like wings your dragon reminds me a lot more of European style dragons. Certain, no where in Indonesia has the influence of European motifs on keris art been more evident than Madura. I could be wrong but i think it is very likely this dragon has more relation to the Dutch than the Chinese.

Rick · 5th September 2005, 11:31 PM

One more swastika base example can be seen on pg. 125 fig. 108 of Tammens DE KRIS vol. 3 .

This style if not of Chinese influence seems at least fairly uncommon .

On pg. 144 fig. 127 same volume another Madura ukiran shows the knot motif .

2nd September 2005, 11:26 PM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	Nicely carved Madurese hilt with Chinese Motif I would appreciate thoughts and comments in regards to the motif that are on this Madurese hilt. The carving is quite good but what I find interesting are the strong Chinese motif. While this is probably not surprising given the number of Chinese throughout the archepelego I cannot recall an example of a Keris hilt with such motif. The first two pictures illustrate a nicely carved dragon with crown(?) on head with a bird attacking it or flying overhead. The dragon reminds me quite a bit of Chinese style dragon. There is also a picture of the base of the ukiran which is usually left uncarved but in this example it is carved with the swastika motif found in Buddhist art. The last picture illustrates nice "rope" motif not unlike what you might find on a Scottish dirk hilt but I have seen this motif in Malaysian work. I am wondering if this was simply made to order for a Chinese customer or perhaps Chinese carved to bring back to the mainland to sell as a curio. Attached Images

2nd September 2005, 11:55 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Rick, This example has the swastika motif and the flower filled panels suggest almost a 'Rose Medallion" style . It was suggested to me by another member that this Madura hilt may also have been carved to the Chinese aesthetic . I also wonder if the bird above your dragon might be the phoenix . Attached Images

3rd September 2005, 12:59 AM	#3
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Chinese influence on keris dress ; rare double keris Rick, Nice example! These motifs are seen on keris handles on occasion; yours is quite a good specimen of the type. Considering that many of the Chinese who settled in Indonesia were merchants and craftsmen, and more than a few of them were purveyors of luxury goods, you can see why the Chinese aesthetic would acquire a certain cache. At the very least, people tend to be attracted to novelty, and foreign styles come into vogue in many cultures for this reason. The "rope design" you mention is indeed common on Scottish dirk hilts, and is reflected in many forms of medieval Irish and Scandinavian art. It is also found in Islamic motifs, and is generally referred to as the "endless knot" . This theme appears frequently in the Far East as well, and is regarded as a Buddhistic element. The design is interpreted by some to represent the Buddha's intestines. (Just as swastikas are believed to be the marks present on his footprints). On a functional note, I've seen the Chinese influence on keris manifest in an extreme and highly unusual example: DOUBLE KERIS FITTING INTO ONE SCABBARD! Rick, remember the dealer I took you to see in LA when you visited last? Over ten yr. ago, he showed me this. The mounts were Javanese. Each hilt was half-sectioned, so even the mendak or ferrule was flat on one side. The flat of one grip had a little mortise which nested into a matching tenon on the other grip so that both daggers would "lock" together when side-by-side. The scabbard had a thin divider to separate the blades. This double keris was otherwise of typical size and dimension for Javanese. A Chinese martial artist would undoubtedly consider them too insubstantial, so I believe the set was made for an Indonesian who practiced a double-blade form and was inspired by the Chinese hudiedao or "butterfly knife". This double weapon was rather plainly dressed, it had none of the rich motifs that your hilt has. Looking back, I kick myself for not making an offer on the piece.

3rd September 2005, 01:42 AM	#4
lordraphael Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 7	not a very Chinese dragon! I was surprised at the dragon on the hilt. It doesn't look Chinese to me. I'm surprised that it really closely resembles a dragon from European lore, with its reptilian head and bat-like wings. While European dragons probably got their bat-like wings from later medieval devils, who in turn owe them to Chinese genies and demons (early European devils had feathered wings), I've never seen a Chinese dragon with wings (though they do fly). Raffaele

3rd September 2005, 02:59 AM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Here're some links to images of Chinese dragons. http://www.mythicalrealm.com/images-...gonRampent.jpg http://www.mythicalrealm.com/images-...dragonroof.jpg http://www.mythicalrealm.com/images-2/chineseleili.jpg http://www.crystalinks.com/chinadragons.html Chinese dragons have deer antler-like horns, a large bulbous nose with a pair of long feelers, a generous beard and 'sideburns', and a high forehead. Long and lanky, with 4 limbs with large claws. No wings. Sometimes, they have a flame-like tail. So I don't think its a Chinese dragon on the hilt. In fact, I thought the dragon was wearing a European crown. Dutch influence? In the 2nd hilt, the floral motifs are arranged in framed panels, which reminds me of baroque European aesthetics. However, I thought the floral motifs are distinctively N. Coast Java/Madura/Bali though, with that 'flame' or 'leaf' motif. See motif on hilt which I believe comes from coastal Java. The swastika panels at the bottom of both hilts do have some Chinese look to it, like the pierced-through panels under the eaves of the roof in some Chinese architecture. But then again, the swastika probably originated from India. I think Chinese influences exist in the keris arts. The best example I know is of a Javanese keris with Chinese lacquer work on the sheath, depicting a Chinese house, a couple of Chinese people and a Chinese pine tree (ya, how many 'Chinese' am I going to use here ). This keris graces the cover of Karsten Jensen's keris book. The other example is in the Invincible Keris. There is a Malay keris with an ivory parrot hilt. That scabbard has Chinese mother-of-pearl inlaid square motifs and striped sheath stem. Another example I remember is the 'curly-worly' Chinese cloud motif sometimes found on textiles and the repoussed silver covering of pedang hilts coming from Cirebon. Anyone has pictures? The last possible example I remember is in John's collection. Its an ivory hilt with deep carved floral panels. Maybe if John would post pictures? Attached Images

3rd September 2005, 01:54 AM	#5
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	Being an ethnic Chinese myself, I once commissioned 2 kerises in Madura, one with the "double dragon persuing pearl" motif carved on the crosspiece (wrangka/sampir) to complement a Naga Pengantin blade which turned out quite well and no doubt there are some Chinese influences here and there given the many Chinese in the archipelago and doing similar things along the way. But the 2 pieces have been sold before I took any pictures. But hilts here don't seemed to look quite Chinese...

3rd September 2005, 04:45 AM	#7
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	Thanks for all the feedback thusfar. Rick, thank you for sharing your example. I like your thoughts about the bird possibly representing the Pheonix. I have a feeling that your and my example do exhibit strong Chinese influences. Philip, Yes, I remember that shop well. Lot's of goodies but the darn guy wouldn't sell me anything I was interested in. I do remember you talking about that double Keris and how much you kick yourself for not picking it up. In regards to the dragon, I am still not convinced that it is not Chinese inspired. I am attaching a picture of a scabbard mount from a Chinese Peidao in which the dragon shares more similarities with this keris than not. Also, the swastika motif and rope motif suggest strong Buddhist elements. Either it is a strange amalgamation of styles carved onto the handle for no reason other than visual appeal or it had some intent to be recognized by individuals who would recognize said symbols. I am also attaching a picture of a scabbard of a Chinese Jian in which the entire scabbard has been carved with the swastika motif, amongst other things. Attached Images

5th September 2005, 11:06 PM	#9
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi Rick. Well, i must admit i have not seen this motif used all that often in keris hilts, but Rick, the Elder ( ) has shown us at least one other and where there are 2 there are probably more. I only made reference to Spirit of Wood examples to show that this motif has been accepted as a common part of Malay culture for some time so that it's use on your Madurese hilt doesn't necessarily indicate that it was made for an ethnic Chinese customer. When i first saw the dragon i had the same impression as lordraphael. With it's bat-like wings your dragon reminds me a lot more of European style dragons. Certain, no where in Indonesia has the influence of European motifs on keris art been more evident than Madura. I could be wrong but i think it is very likely this dragon has more relation to the Dutch than the Chinese.

5th September 2005, 11:31 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	One more swastika base example can be seen on pg. 125 fig. 108 of Tammens DE KRIS vol. 3 . This style if not of Chinese influence seems at least fairly uncommon . On pg. 144 fig. 127 same volume another Madura ukiran shows the knot motif .