Somalia,sword,shield,spear

Tim Simmons · 25th March 2005, 12:04 PM

I post these to continue the recent display of weapons from the horn of Africa.I am lucky enough to have a full set,the spear is 228cm long,the short sword 69cm,the shield 33cm dia.Tim

Mark · 25th March 2005, 03:27 PM

Great stuff, Tim. Is that a back spike at the pommel? It is all a very nice set.

Tim Simmons · 25th March 2005, 03:44 PM

Thank you Mark, these swords all have stangely thin handles.The pommel is a spike.

Conogre · 25th March 2005, 11:46 PM

How did these sneak by with so little fanfare?
That's a truly beautiful set, with each piece great on its own merit, but when together it just seems to add so much.
Those bilaou (sp?) swords seem to come in two distinct vatieties, one with the thin blade and hilt and the other fatter in both respects, which would seem to indicate to possibility of either two closely related tribal groups or else the before and after in a distinct change based upon tribal evolution.
I'm truly in a state of envy over these...very, very nice.
Mike

tom hyle · 26th March 2005, 05:29 AM

Seems like the wider ones are more curved/asymetric, and also have a trident type pommel, rather than a single spike? Also, that they are shorter?

Tim Simmons · 26th March 2005, 10:51 AM

Thanks kindly, all comes to he who waits, or something like that.Tim

Aurangzeb · 26th March 2005, 02:43 PM

Hi Tim!

Very nice set.Very nice condition.How old is it?(the sword)

tom hyle · 26th March 2005, 05:34 PM

That's aluminum on the hilt? The older ones I've seen have lead spacers and iron upper and lower guards.

Tim Simmons · 26th March 2005, 06:01 PM

Hello, the white metal is some kind of lead and tin mix, pewter in other words.On the back of the scabbard there is an faint ink insciption and the date 1896 but then anybody could have written that.The flash on the photo has a habit of making things look so clean.Tim

Tim Simmons · 26th March 2005, 09:50 PM

I thought I might include this one in the thread, it is very remenicient of Somali weapons but it is a very difficult area to be sure of anything,comments please.Tim

tom hyle · 26th March 2005, 10:39 PM

The work reminds me of c20th Syrian daggers, though I've not seen one quite like it.

Conogre · 30th March 2005, 08:35 PM

That's a beautiful knife Tim, and with that asymmetrical blade almost looks like it could just as easily be gile' that belonged to an obviously high ranking or status individual.
Sweet!!!
Mike

Freddy · 31st March 2005, 11:00 AM

This one just arrived yesterday.

I know, it's not very old, but I got a bit of history with it.

This knife was obtained in Somalia in 1992 by a belgian soldier during a humanitarian mission (about the time the events occured pictured in the film 'black hawk down').
They had to do reconnaissance flights over the North of Somalia upto Djibouti. It was a small military group with 5 helicopters and in all 30 men.
They were stationed on a peninsula and no civilians were allowed on the base. At the guard post, children came to sell or trade stuff. This knife was traded for a package of biscuits.

Total length of the knife is 29 cm. The blade is stilleto-shaped, with both edges sharpened. Part of it has a sawback edge. The blade is steel of some sort. The handle is partly made of plastic (?) and aluminium and very thin.
The sheath is made of leather and looks used.

Any comments ?

Tim Simmons · 31st March 2005, 05:37 PM

Hello Freddy ,what a fascinating addition to an already fine collection,I find the traditional form mixed with the modern macho hunting type knife saw back, really interesting.I like the history and the materials used show that a countries fortunes are not allways on the up.Tim

Conogre · 31st March 2005, 05:50 PM

I fully concur....that's an awesome contemporary piece that, IMHO shows that the evolution of ethnographic pieces has by no means come to an end.
Large portions af Africa are still just a stone's (no pun intended) throw away from their roots and I suspect that remote regions of Indonesia and New Guinea will likewise prove to be the same.
The hilt is reminiscent of a Bilao piece, and likely shares that linneage, correct?
Great find!
Mike

25th March 2005, 12:04 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Somalia,sword,shield,spear I post these to continue the recent display of weapons from the horn of Africa.I am lucky enough to have a full set,the spear is 228cm long,the short sword 69cm,the shield 33cm dia.Tim Attached Images

25th March 2005, 03:44 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Thank you Mark, these swords all have stangely thin handles.The pommel is a spike. Attached Images

26th March 2005, 02:43 PM	#7
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	nice Hi Tim! Very nice set.Very nice condition.How old is it?(the sword) Last edited by Aurangzeb; 26th March 2005 at 02:45 PM. Reason: add something

26th March 2005, 06:01 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Hello, the white metal is some kind of lead and tin mix, pewter in other words.On the back of the scabbard there is an faint ink insciption and the date 1896 but then anybody could have written that.The flash on the photo has a habit of making things look so clean.Tim Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 26th March 2005 at 06:23 PM.

26th March 2005, 09:50 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I thought I might include this one in the thread, it is very remenicient of Somali weapons but it is a very difficult area to be sure of anything,comments please.Tim Attached Images

25th March 2005, 03:27 PM	#2
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Great stuff, Tim. Is that a back spike at the pommel? It is all a very nice set.

25th March 2005, 11:46 PM	#4
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	How did these sneak by with so little fanfare? That's a truly beautiful set, with each piece great on its own merit, but when together it just seems to add so much. Those bilaou (sp?) swords seem to come in two distinct vatieties, one with the thin blade and hilt and the other fatter in both respects, which would seem to indicate to possibility of either two closely related tribal groups or else the before and after in a distinct change based upon tribal evolution. I'm truly in a state of envy over these...very, very nice. Mike

26th March 2005, 05:29 AM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Seems like the wider ones are more curved/asymetric, and also have a trident type pommel, rather than a single spike? Also, that they are shorter?

26th March 2005, 10:51 AM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Thanks kindly, all comes to he who waits, or something like that.Tim

26th March 2005, 05:34 PM	#8
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	That's aluminum on the hilt? The older ones I've seen have lead spacers and iron upper and lower guards.

26th March 2005, 10:39 PM	#11
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The work reminds me of c20th Syrian daggers, though I've not seen one quite like it.

30th March 2005, 08:35 PM	#12
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	That's a beautiful knife Tim, and with that asymmetrical blade almost looks like it could just as easily be gile' that belonged to an obviously high ranking or status individual. Sweet!!! Mike

31st March 2005, 11:00 AM	#13
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	This one just arrived yesterday. I know, it's not very old, but I got a bit of history with it. This knife was obtained in Somalia in 1992 by a belgian soldier during a humanitarian mission (about the time the events occured pictured in the film 'black hawk down'). They had to do reconnaissance flights over the North of Somalia upto Djibouti. It was a small military group with 5 helicopters and in all 30 men. They were stationed on a peninsula and no civilians were allowed on the base. At the guard post, children came to sell or trade stuff. This knife was traded for a package of biscuits. Total length of the knife is 29 cm. The blade is stilleto-shaped, with both edges sharpened. Part of it has a sawback edge. The blade is steel of some sort. The handle is partly made of plastic (?) and aluminium and very thin. The sheath is made of leather and looks used. Any comments ?

31st March 2005, 05:37 PM	#14
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Hello Freddy ,what a fascinating addition to an already fine collection,I find the traditional form mixed with the modern macho hunting type knife saw back, really interesting.I like the history and the materials used show that a countries fortunes are not allways on the up.Tim

31st March 2005, 05:50 PM	#15
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	I fully concur....that's an awesome contemporary piece that, IMHO shows that the evolution of ethnographic pieces has by no means come to an end. Large portions af Africa are still just a stone's (no pun intended) throw away from their roots and I suspect that remote regions of Indonesia and New Guinea will likewise prove to be the same. The hilt is reminiscent of a Bilao piece, and likely shares that linneage, correct? Great find! Mike