Poiniard? Stilleto? Naval dirk?

M ELEY · 3rd October 2018, 04:13 AM

I bought this dagger a while back. It was billed as a naval dirk and it very well may be. First off, description:

The piece measures 18" total length, of which 14 1/2" is blade (hilt is only 3 1/2"!). The long thin blade has a keen edge and a wicked point. You will see from the pics that the blade is diamond-shaped in profile. The guard is cruciform in shape, has a metal ferrel and the quillons have interesting balled ends. The rest of the grip beyond the ferrel piece is carved horn (including the pommel) and made in an interesting fluted pattern. The tang is peened and has a little end cap at th pommel.

OK, so what is it? Most stilletos were all steel and from an earlier period. I woul date this piece to 18th c. pretty solidly. Let me start off by saying despite appearing 'dainty', this dagger could easily run a man through. The reinforced diamond blade would piece through thick clothing no problem.

A case for it being a naval dirk comes from several angles. First off, naval dirks were carried by midshipmen for most of the navies of the period. The dirk served several functions; as a weapon of last means in close combat and as a symbol of rank and status. This dirk could deliver a nasty wound or even kill a man and it has just enough design/decoration to please the eye. Many dirks were no more than fancy dress pieces and not meant for true combat. This sleek weapon seems to walk that line between dress and a true defensive weapon.

The other factor one must consider is the little grip! It appears this piece was made for a very small hand indeed. The young officers aboard a naval vessel were in training to become true officers and commanders some day and could be as young as ten years old!(Gilkerson, 'Borders Away') If not made for a young midshipman, than who? My daughter has small hands and even she had to grip tight not to drop it.

So, other questions. Country of origin? American? French? Has anyone seen another dirk/dagger like this? I've seen several plain swords with similar cruciform hilts attributed to Portugal, but not even sure of those sword's origins are corect. Someone else suggested that it could be a 'gunner's dirk' to prick the powder once it's in the barrel, but the blade has no measuring marks. I am open to opinions either way-

M ELEY · 3rd October 2018, 12:11 PM

Here is a French pattern naval dirk ca. 1795-1810 with the 'propeller' quillons.

Rick · 3rd October 2018, 08:02 PM

Your dagger looks very much like a Misericorde Mark.

M ELEY · 4th October 2018, 05:54 AM

I like the way you think, Rick-

Having looked over some of the past posts on Misericordes, along with close cousins like the so-called 'Gunner's daggers', I would say it is a distinct possibility. I was guessing at the age of the dagger, so it could easily be a century older than I first thought (17th versus 18th).

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...6-a61a00976aa9

I also understand that there was a resurgence of Misericordes in Victorian times, but most of those were extremely embellished/decorated and typically not 'working models' (blunt edges), like the ritual Satanist daggers coming out of France during the 19th c. I am out of my league on this one and will have to do some research on these types. Thank you so much for the (potential) lead. I will say that to back up your theory, mine does have the cruciform hilt and the diamond-shaped blade would easily punch through thin sheet metal I think...
Mark

M ELEY · 4th October 2018, 06:08 AM

It is interesting that the hilt on this one is shaped similar to mine and made of horn. Also the similarity in the blade. This one shorter than mine at 16".

M ELEY · 4th October 2018, 06:12 AM

Rick, I think you hit it on the head! Here's another listed as 17th c. with an eerily similar hilt to mine!

Madnumforce · 4th October 2018, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

It is interesting that the hilt on this one is shaped similar to mine and made of horn. Also the similarity in the blade. This one shorter than mine at 16".

Well, it may not be very interesting, but judging from the stringy aspect of that horn and the deep, warm, chatoyant honey colour, I'd say it's likely some sort of sheep/ram horn.

Rick · 4th October 2018, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

I like the way you think, Rick-

Having looked over some of the past posts on Misericordes, along with close cousins like the so-called 'Gunner's daggers', I would say it is a distinct possibility. I was guessing at the age of the dagger, so it could easily be a century older than I first thought (17th versus 18th).

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...6-a61a00976aa9

I also understand that there was a resurgence of Misericordes in Victorian times, but most of those were extremely embellished/decorated and typically not 'working models' (blunt edges), like the ritual Satanist daggers coming out of France during the 19th c. I am out of my league on this one and will have to do some research on these types. Thank you so much for the (potential) lead. I will say that to back up your theory, mine does have the cruciform hilt and the diamond-shaped blade would easily punch through thin sheet metal I think...
Mark

Just to confuse things further Mark, artillery men, or gun captains at sea used goose quills packed with powder to shove down the touch hole so that ignition was pretty much guaranteed by a substantial amount of priming powder reaching the charge. In this situation a smooth pointed stiletto would be useful and would not need to have notches near the point to rip the cartridge bag.
There is an example of a rough pointed example to be found in a 'gunner's stiletto' forum search.

M ELEY · 5th October 2018, 03:40 AM

Now I really think we're got it. Here is a post from the Forum with excellent notes from Jim McD and Michael.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=84218

I also found a group of stilettos and 'bombadier's stilettos' in Southwick's guide which were a near match. Most were all steel, but two listed had horn hilts and one of them was unmarked on the blade, like mine. Apparently, not all had the numerals on them.

I was a little worried that mine might be more contemporary, what with the odd round quillons, but the examples shown all had oval or round quillons as well!
Rick, thanks for pinning this one down! I am most surprised by the final identity!

3rd October 2018, 04:13 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Poiniard? Stilleto? Naval dirk? I bought this dagger a while back. It was billed as a naval dirk and it very well may be. First off, description: The piece measures 18" total length, of which 14 1/2" is blade (hilt is only 3 1/2"!). The long thin blade has a keen edge and a wicked point. You will see from the pics that the blade is diamond-shaped in profile. The guard is cruciform in shape, has a metal ferrel and the quillons have interesting balled ends. The rest of the grip beyond the ferrel piece is carved horn (including the pommel) and made in an interesting fluted pattern. The tang is peened and has a little end cap at th pommel. OK, so what is it? Most stilletos were all steel and from an earlier period. I woul date this piece to 18th c. pretty solidly. Let me start off by saying despite appearing 'dainty', this dagger could easily run a man through. The reinforced diamond blade would piece through thick clothing no problem. A case for it being a naval dirk comes from several angles. First off, naval dirks were carried by midshipmen for most of the navies of the period. The dirk served several functions; as a weapon of last means in close combat and as a symbol of rank and status. This dirk could deliver a nasty wound or even kill a man and it has just enough design/decoration to please the eye. Many dirks were no more than fancy dress pieces and not meant for true combat. This sleek weapon seems to walk that line between dress and a true defensive weapon. The other factor one must consider is the little grip! It appears this piece was made for a very small hand indeed. The young officers aboard a naval vessel were in training to become true officers and commanders some day and could be as young as ten years old!(Gilkerson, 'Borders Away') If not made for a young midshipman, than who? My daughter has small hands and even she had to grip tight not to drop it. So, other questions. Country of origin? American? French? Has anyone seen another dirk/dagger like this? I've seen several plain swords with similar cruciform hilts attributed to Portugal, but not even sure of those sword's origins are corect. Someone else suggested that it could be a 'gunner's dirk' to prick the powder once it's in the barrel, but the blade has no measuring marks. I am open to opinions either way- Attached Images Last edited by M ELEY; 4th October 2018 at 02:29 AM.

3rd October 2018, 12:11 PM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	A similar naval dirk pattern- Here is a French pattern naval dirk ca. 1795-1810 with the 'propeller' quillons. Attached Images

4th October 2018, 06:08 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Here's a French or Italian one from c.1550. It is interesting that the hilt on this one is shaped similar to mine and made of horn. Also the similarity in the blade. This one shorter than mine at 16". Attached Images

4th October 2018, 06:12 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	And another! Rick, I think you hit it on the head! Here's another listed as 17th c. with an eerily similar hilt to mine! Attached Images Last edited by M ELEY; 4th October 2018 at 07:15 AM.

3rd October 2018, 08:02 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Your dagger looks very much like a Misericorde Mark.

4th October 2018, 05:54 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	I like the way you think, Rick- Having looked over some of the past posts on Misericordes, along with close cousins like the so-called 'Gunner's daggers', I would say it is a distinct possibility. I was guessing at the age of the dagger, so it could easily be a century older than I first thought (17th versus 18th). https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/a...6-a61a00976aa9 I also understand that there was a resurgence of Misericordes in Victorian times, but most of those were extremely embellished/decorated and typically not 'working models' (blunt edges), like the ritual Satanist daggers coming out of France during the 19th c. I am out of my league on this one and will have to do some research on these types. Thank you so much for the (potential) lead. I will say that to back up your theory, mine does have the cruciform hilt and the diamond-shaped blade would easily punch through thin sheet metal I think... Mark

5th October 2018, 03:40 AM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Now I really think we're got it. Here is a post from the Forum with excellent notes from Jim McD and Michael. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=84218 I also found a group of stilettos and 'bombadier's stilettos' in Southwick's guide which were a near match. Most were all steel, but two listed had horn hilts and one of them was unmarked on the blade, like mine. Apparently, not all had the numerals on them. I was a little worried that mine might be more contemporary, what with the odd round quillons, but the examples shown all had oval or round quillons as well! Rick, thanks for pinning this one down! I am most surprised by the final identity!