Mixed up sword

Michael Blalock · 20th July 2007, 02:47 AM

Here is a wild mix. It has the pommel and grip of a Takouba, the cross guard of a Shamshir and the blade of a Kaskara. This photo is from the American Museum of Natural History website as Ethiopian.

TVV · 20th July 2007, 04:26 AM

To me the blade looks like it tampers towards the tip, so I think it might actually be froma a takouba. The scabbard is also from a touareg origin.

ariel · 20th July 2007, 01:31 PM

To me it also looks "Takouba-ish". Perhaps, this sword is not as mixed-up as it appears: just a Takouba whose owner swapped the original crossguard for a more fancy Ottoman one.

roanoa · 28th July 2007, 04:25 AM

Michael, nothing surprises me when it come to Ethiopian swords. Yes, it's a bit of a Frankestein's creation, but it could very well be from Ethiopia. Maybe Sudanese border from one of the nomadic tribes. Having said that, how do you get to AMNH's site and how do you research Ethiopian stuff? I have tried without much success. Cheers, RON

Michael Blalock · 28th July 2007, 04:33 PM

Ron, As I recall, I googled into the AMNH site and found this photo. I don't recall a front door to the pictures.

Sorry,

Mike

Jim McDougall · 28th July 2007, 05:15 PM

I agree with Roanoa, the elements of this sword are takouba with the exception of the Ottoman crossguard, which is decidedly misplaced. The key for such anomolies would be the trade routes that traversed Ethiopian regions to and from the Saharan caravans. This has been discussed of course quite a bit over the years, especially during the 'Zanzibar sword' research. In that case the 'Zanzibar' sword shown in Burton was revealed to actually be a Moroccan form known there as s'boula. What was quite confounding in trying to establish the origins of the weapon here was that in limited instance, examples of these occurred in some Ethiopian armouries. In one obscure monograph on African weapons (cannot recall the title...perhaps Roanoa can..it was about 1956)...one of these is shown along with shotels. It seems that weapons from the far western African regions, even as far as the Maghreb found thier way eastward on the routes, through Ethiopian regions and to the bustling trade center of Zanzibar. The Zanzibar connection also explains in degree certain Omani influences that also occur in weapons as far as Morocco and Mali.

It does seem curious to see a takouba turn up in Ethiopia though. It has always seemed that these, as well as flyssas have somehow resisted the diffusion into the eastern African regions, while they of course are found in expanded regions to the west. The 'kaskara' meanwhile is known not only in Ethiopia, but in Eritrea due to the nomadic movements of Sudanese tribes such as Beja and Hadendoa.

Thank you Michael for posting this most interesting weapon!

All best regards,
Jim

katana · 28th July 2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roanoa

how do you get to AMNH's site and how do you research Ethiopian stuff? I have tried without much success. Cheers, RON

Hi Ron....do you mean this site

http://anthro.amnh.org/javascript/pub_coll.htm

Jim McDougall · 30th July 2007, 09:59 PM

Having said that, how do you get to AMNH's site and how do you research Ethiopian stuff? I have tried without much success. Cheers, RON[/QUOTE]

Hey Ron!
I think you could probably tell them things about Ethiopian stuff!!

Michael, thanks again for posting this unusual piece, I enjoyed it!

All the best,
Jim

roanoa · 3rd August 2007, 02:27 AM

Thanks, Katana. Got into the site and was left speechless when I saw the shields.... But the swords..... Very disappointing. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, anyways. Cheers, RON

20th July 2007, 02:47 AM	#1
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Mixed up sword Here is a wild mix. It has the pommel and grip of a Takouba, the cross guard of a Shamshir and the blade of a Kaskara. This photo is from the American Museum of Natural History website as Ethiopian. Attached Images

20th July 2007, 04:26 AM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	To me the blade looks like it tampers towards the tip, so I think it might actually be froma a takouba. The scabbard is also from a touareg origin.

20th July 2007, 01:31 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	To me it also looks "Takouba-ish". Perhaps, this sword is not as mixed-up as it appears: just a Takouba whose owner swapped the original crossguard for a more fancy Ottoman one.

28th July 2007, 04:25 AM	#4
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 235	Michael, nothing surprises me when it come to Ethiopian swords. Yes, it's a bit of a Frankestein's creation, but it could very well be from Ethiopia. Maybe Sudanese border from one of the nomadic tribes. Having said that, how do you get to AMNH's site and how do you research Ethiopian stuff? I have tried without much success. Cheers, RON

28th July 2007, 04:33 PM	#5
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Ron, As I recall, I googled into the AMNH site and found this photo. I don't recall a front door to the pictures. Sorry, Mike

28th July 2007, 05:15 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	I agree with Roanoa, the elements of this sword are takouba with the exception of the Ottoman crossguard, which is decidedly misplaced. The key for such anomolies would be the trade routes that traversed Ethiopian regions to and from the Saharan caravans. This has been discussed of course quite a bit over the years, especially during the 'Zanzibar sword' research. In that case the 'Zanzibar' sword shown in Burton was revealed to actually be a Moroccan form known there as s'boula. What was quite confounding in trying to establish the origins of the weapon here was that in limited instance, examples of these occurred in some Ethiopian armouries. In one obscure monograph on African weapons (cannot recall the title...perhaps Roanoa can..it was about 1956)...one of these is shown along with shotels. It seems that weapons from the far western African regions, even as far as the Maghreb found thier way eastward on the routes, through Ethiopian regions and to the bustling trade center of Zanzibar. The Zanzibar connection also explains in degree certain Omani influences that also occur in weapons as far as Morocco and Mali. It does seem curious to see a takouba turn up in Ethiopia though. It has always seemed that these, as well as flyssas have somehow resisted the diffusion into the eastern African regions, while they of course are found in expanded regions to the west. The 'kaskara' meanwhile is known not only in Ethiopia, but in Eritrea due to the nomadic movements of Sudanese tribes such as Beja and Hadendoa. Thank you Michael for posting this most interesting weapon! All best regards, Jim

30th July 2007, 09:59 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	Having said that, how do you get to AMNH's site and how do you research Ethiopian stuff? I have tried without much success. Cheers, RON[/QUOTE] Hey Ron! I think you could probably tell them things about Ethiopian stuff!! Michael, thanks again for posting this unusual piece, I enjoyed it! All the best, Jim

3rd August 2007, 02:27 AM	#9
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 235	Thanks, Katana. Got into the site and was left speechless when I saw the shields.... But the swords..... Very disappointing. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, anyways. Cheers, RON