Two Dutch Hembrugs

[Bill M]

I got my modified Hembrug from UK today. Here are some pictures with a longer standard Dutch Klewang used in Aceh.

If I had not read the earlier thread, I would have thought that my "modified" klewang was made as such and not a shortened Dutch military klewang.

I ordered a copy of "Klewang: Catalogue of the Dutch Army Museum by Koninklijk Nederlands Leger- en Wapenmuseum Generaal Hoefer, J. P. Puype, Jozef J Aptos, Jan Piet Puijpe, Koninklijk Nederlands Leger- en Wapenmuseum Generaal Hoefer, Rob de Sturler Boekwijt."

from Barnes and Noble Booksellers USA and it was in Dutch! There was no mention of this when I ordered it, so I returned it and bought another copy from Amazon after being sure it was in English. This copy has not arrived yet, so I will withhold comments until I get it.

Hopefully Wayne and a few others who have "Kelly-wang" knowledge will chime in.

[trenchwarfare]

Bill. The modified sword was captured in the Dutch East Indies, by the Japanese during WWII. They shortened the blade, and put a more Japanese style point. They also removed the major portion of the guard. These were used as machetes, and issued to local paramilitary, and police units. M.P.

[asomotif]

Dear Bill,

This type is also referred to as a Heiho Klewang.

As for the book

so I returned it and bought another copy from Amazon after being sure it was in English.

PS.
I can still get copies of this book in combined Dutch and English language.
Just PM me if you are interested.

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by trenchwarfare

Bill. The modified sword was captured in the Dutch East Indies, by the Japanese during WWII. They shortened the blade, and put a more Japanese style point. They also removed the major portion of the guard. These were used as machetes, and issued to local paramilitary, and police units. M.P.

As far as I am concerned, this is another popular myth that has passed into folklore.
It was quite common for local recruits/mercenaries fighting for the colonial Dutch military to modify their cutlasses to suit their personal taste for more efficient use with their 'brand' of martial arts. This went on long before the outbreak of hostilities known as WWII. Among the Soenda, for instance, the length and weight would be adjusted for use in Ibing Toelak Bala as a golok or golok pandjang. The closed guard would also have been more of a hindrance.

Best,

[Henk]

I'm afraid this is not a popular myth.

It is as Trenchwarfare and asomotif said. These dutch klewangs were reshaped by the japanese during WWII into a heiho klewang.

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Henk

I'm afraid this is not a popular myth.

It is as Trenchwarfare and asomotif said. These dutch klewangs were reshaped by the japanese during WWII into a heiho klewang.

Hullo Henk,

Sorry, but I must disagree. While the Japanese may have been responsible for the term Heiho Klewang, this modification was only a continuation of past practice. Such modifications were made as far afield as Montenegro (where it was cut and shaped like a short yataghan) and South Africa (where it was made easier to cut through the bush).
Anyway, to each his own.

Best,

[kronckew]

y'all are probably all correct, local mods and japanese mods are more likely than local mods or japanese mods. would be interesting to see a few together, i only have the a full - sized unmodified klewang (at the moment ).

[trenchwarfare]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo Henk,

Sorry, but I must disagree. While the Japanese may have been responsible for the term Heiho Klewang, this modification was only a continuation of past practice. Such modifications were made as far afield as Montenegro (where it was cut and shaped like a short yataghan) and South Africa (where it was made easier to cut through the bush).
Anyway, to each his own.

Best,

You say that the Japanese continued the practice. This doesn't mean that the Japanese didn't initiate a similar practice under there occupation. It's like saying that the French were the first to sporterize military firearms. Even Native Americans of the Historic era searched earlier prehistoric sites for projectile points, and reworked them into their own designs. It's human nature to take another's tool, weapons, or equipment, and modify them to your own needs and tastes. You contardict yourself. To each his own I guess.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

As far as I am concerned, this is another popular myth that has passed into folklore.
It was quite common for local recruits/mercenaries fighting for the colonial Dutch military to modify their cutlasses to suit their personal taste for more efficient use with their 'brand' of martial arts. This went on long before the outbreak of hostilities known as WWII. Among the Soenda, for instance, the length and weight would be adjusted for use in Ibing Toelak Bala as a golok or golok pandjang. The closed guard would also have been more of a hindrance.

Best,

Hallo Amuk,

Are you saying that it was Dutch local recruits/mercenaries who modified these klewangs into the "machette shape" and this was not done by the Japanese?

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Hallo Amuk,

Are you saying that it was Dutch local recruits/mercenaries who modified these klewangs into the "machette shape" and this was not done by the Japanese?

Hullo Bill,

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.
First of all, you must realise that the Dutch colonial forces had foreign soldiers fighting for them even in the Atjeh conflicts. First, were the Ugandans, I think, (Africans,anyway), followed by people from the Soelawesi area, the Madoera area and Djawa.
Traditionally, people from Noesantara (Malay Archipelago) had their important/personal implements (as opposed to day-to-day-use ones) custom-made to suit the user's personal characteristics. It was unusual for someone to pick one up at the market,except in an emergency. With the varying builds and heights of these people ( unusual to be above 5'7''), the standard-issue klewang would have been wieldy and cumbersome to use, especially in traditional combat. Therefore, the practical modification.
As for the Japanese, even the Soenda, at the time, referred to them as "Oerang Kate" (short people). No doubt many of them faced similar problems with the klewang.
I myself differentiate between my personal instruments and my collection.

Best,

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo Bill,

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.
First of all, you must realise that the Dutch colonial forces had foreign soldiers fighting for them even in the Atjeh conflicts. First, were the Ugandans, I think, (Africans,anyway), followed by people from the Soelawesi area, the Madoera area and Djawa.
Traditionally, people from Noesantara (Malay Archipelago) had their important/personal implements (as opposed to day-to-day-use ones) custom-made to suit the user's personal characteristics. It was unusual for someone to pick one up at the market,except in an emergency. With the varying builds and heights of these people ( unusual to be above 5'7''), the standard-issue klewang would have been wieldy and cumbersome to use, especially in traditional combat. Therefore, the practical modification.
As for the Japanese, even the Soenda, at the time, referred to them as "Oerang Kate" (short people). No doubt many of them faced similar problems with the klewang.
I myself differentiate between my personal instruments and my collection.

Best,

Hullo Everybody,

Sorry for bringing up an old thread. I was cleaning up some of my stuff and came upon some material taken from Puype. I thought it appropriate to post this relevant bit for posterity. As my Dutch is not as good as that of a native, I ask that a person with better knowledge of Dutch translate it for me. Thank you in advance.

"..Het is heel zelden dat een klewang voor 100% origineel is',
aldus het relaas van een oud-KNIL-soldaat: 'Als de klewangs uitgereikt werden aan de
soldaten begon de ellende voor de officieren. Iedere, hoofdzakelijk inlandse, soldaat, begon te
slijpen en te vijlen aan die dingen [. .. ] Korter of langer gemaakt, soms wat verbreed aan de
punt of een V-vormige punt eraan geslepen. Gewoon zoals hij 'lekker' in de hand lag. Waar
een blanke soldaat met de klewang stond te hakken en te maaien, hoefde de inlandse soldaat
slechts met een geoefende polsbeweging een draaiende beweging te maken om een veel groter
effect te sorteren. Geoefend werd eerst op pisangstammen, later op houten palen. Als er
inspectie was van de klewang kwam er een grote rariteitenverzameling uit de scheden. Deze
laatste waren wel uniform gebleven. Alles werd dan afgekeurd, ingeleverd en nieuwe
klewangs werden uitgereikt. Dan volgde weer hetzelfde gangetje. Uiteindelijk werden er
zoveel klewangs van elkaar en meestal gesneuvelden gejat dat bijna iedere soldaat een nieuwe
klewang had voor inspectie en één voor het gevecht, en één schede. Ook werden veel
klewangs verloren of verzopen [voor jenever verkocht] door de blanke zoals dat heette...".


Best,

[Bill M]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=klewang