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#1 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,234
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Dear All,
I would much appreciate your thoughts on this one. Actually quality/state of preservation of the blade wasn't acceptable for me, yet the whole was so interesting, that I decided to go for it. The blade is 32,5 cm long, pesi 5,2 cm. If pesi was cut, it happened a long time ago, there are no signs of this procedure left. The blade fits perfectly in the sheath, at the mouth of the sheath as well as in the length. There was a lot of rust between blade and Gonjo, Gonjo has been pushed down about 1 mm down the Pesi. The mounts becouse of the finial (buntut) could be atributed to Kedah (this sultanate interests me more and more; I would like to open a separate thread on Keris from there). Sampir is made from black, very dense wood (Kenaung?). My general question is the provenance of the blade: is this an older javanese blade, or could it perhaps be an old peninsular blade, perhaps a proto-Malela blade? I am really interested in all aspects of "this is so, becouse" regarding it. My thoughts are: the pamor looks Javanese; the blade in current state is to short for a Javanese blade, as is the Pesi; Ricikan look very Javanese, yet the protruding tip at the Gandhik side of Gonjo is perhaps a little bit strange. As I said, I am interested in every aspect regarding this keris. Last edited by Gustav; 5th December 2012 at 03:03 PM. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,234
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More pictures:
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#3 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mother North
Posts: 189
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Compaired to some of you guys I know almost nothing about keris and I unfortunately can't help you, but I wanted to say that I really really like it - it really touches me in a way that few keris do. The dapur (that's the shape, right?) has a great smoothness to it, very graceful. The carved groove in the middle, which I don't know the name of, fits in really well too! The ivory hilt is just icing on the cake.
![]() Cheers and enjoy, - Thor |
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mother North
Posts: 189
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Is it elephant or whale btw?
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#5 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,726
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Hello Gustav,
very interesting keris, congrats! ![]() ![]() Thor, handle material is clearly hippo ivory IMHO. Regards, Detlef |
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#6 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
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Hello Detlef,
Quote:
Regards, Kai |
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#7 | |||||
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,252
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Hello Gustav,
Congrats, nice score! I also do like the selut: quality seems quite above average! Quote:
IMVHO the ricikan look a bit rudimentary and were possibly never up to Jawa kraton quality standards though - however, this picture might change if you hypothesize major loss due to edge corrosion/repair... Quote:
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I wouldn't be surprised if this were a N Malay keris blade crafted with heavy Minang influence. Expat Minang have had quite a bit of social/political influence regionally (in Negri Sembilan). Regards, Kai |
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#8 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,234
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Thor, thank you for the enthusiastic comments. Here a good source for names of different features on a Keris blade:
http://kerisattosanaji.com/kerisdiagram.html Thank you very much for your comments, Detlef and Kai. Regarding the everlasting question "hippo or elephant", I must admit, I gave up this subject a time ago. May be I am not talented enough for it ![]() A good thread regarding ivory: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=ivory Tomorrov I will take a few more pictures of hilt and Pesi. Kai: the Ricikan was never Javanese first class standard on this blade for sure. This is an average blade. Pesi: tomorrow, if it's not snowing. Sampir: this was my suspicion also, before I received it. The wood is very dense; its quite dark, black where the oiled blade touched it, and it surely is old. Blade: I never said, it is a Malela blade. It has Pamor. What I ment is: IF it isn't a Javanese blade, IF it is a N. Malay Peninsula blade, and IF it is an older one, this MAYBE could be a form, which participated to the development of Malela blades. I feel something like this looking on the famous Paul's 13 Luk Malela blade, which is more on Javanese side then most Malela blades (Poyuhan, lack of Bugis type Gandhik), and which perhaps shares a few superficial similarities with my village quality specimen. I think, you and Detlef are wright about certain Minang traits. Yet I also suppose, the Minang Keris (which is a deep mystery for me) was influenced or created by a Javanese form. And perhaps Peninsula was reached by both forms, this particular Javanese and Minang? Speculations, speculations... Last edited by Gustav; 6th December 2012 at 08:36 AM. |
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#9 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,209
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#10 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,234
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Here are the pictures of the hilt and Pesi.
Thank you for the links, Henk. May I ask you to explain your points please? |
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#11 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mother North
Posts: 189
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Hi Gustav! Thank you so much for the diagrams with the keris nomenclature - they have been added to my ever growing library.
![]() Hi kai, I see the little row of spots that you mention. I've heard before that hippo ivory should have such spotted lines, but never more than anecdotal information. Do you by any chance have a reference in this regard? I would love the chance to seek out the source. Cordially, - Thor |
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#12 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,726
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![]() Quote:
Thank you for posting the pictures, agree, the pesi (and the blade) don't look like a Jawa one. Pesi look like of some of my Miang blades. Maybe Kai have given the direction. Regards, Detlef |
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#13 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,209
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I explained in these links that in the Sumatra area the javanese keris was highly sought after. Sailors brought javanese blades back from their trading journeys and blacksmiths started making keris after javanese examples. So, your keris could be a javanese keris. But it is also possible it is local made after javanese example. |
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