Napoleonic? Hangar type grip, Straight blade

[Jon MB]

Hello All,

Hope we are having a good day.

What do we think of this? French/Continental? Naval? Circa 1780?

Straight blade, 81 cm -Blade older than grips?

Basket hilt, one branch period removed.

Fishskin grips, remains of binding wire.

All comments welcomed. Many thanks

[Dmitry]

Probably Dutch.

[M ELEY]

Dmitry is right. The hilt is definitely Dutch, m1790 marinesabal pattern, but with a straight blade??? The Dutch marine swords usually have a curved blade, but the classic bird head grip, fish skin, raised capstan with offset screw securing the knucklebow is spot on for this model/pattern. It appears as if one of the hilt bars has been removed?

Interestingly enough, the late (great!) George Gilkerson surmised (along with other naval experts) in 'Boarders Away' that the m1790 pattern was exported to the United States during the 1790's to supply the newly formed U.S. marine corps. Evidence pointing to this distinct possibility is that the m1790 Dutch sabers used on the continent were all extensively marked with regimental marks, battalion marks, proofs, etc. whereas the ones shipped out bore no markings.

If we follow this logic, this could have been an export/prototype straight bladed naval saber/hanger for private purchase use. Just a thought. Very nice sword, in any case-
M Eley

Here's mine-
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11432

[Jon MB]

Gentlemen, thank you for comments and further information, nice to see other examples.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Dmitry is right. The hilt is definitely Dutch, m1790 marinesabal pattern, but with a straight blade??? The Dutch marine swords usually have a curved blade, but the classic bird head grip, fish skin, raised capstan with offset screw securing the knucklebow is spot on for this model/pattern. It appears as if one of the hilt bars has been removed?

Interestingly enough, the late (great!) George Gilkerson surmised (along with other naval experts) in 'Boarders Away' that the m1790 pattern was exported to the United States during the 1790's to supply the newly formed U.S. marine corps. Evidence pointing to this distinct possibility is that the m1790 Dutch sabers used on the continent were all extensively marked with regimental marks, battalion marks, proofs, etc. whereas the ones shipped out bore no markings.

If we follow this logic, this could have been an export/prototype straight bladed naval saber/hanger for private purchase use. Just a thought. Very nice sword, in any case-
M Eley

Here's mine-
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11432

Beautifully done Cap'n Mark!!! I always greatly appreciate the way you bring in salient historical points beyond simple classification or typology. It adds so much dimension to our understanding of the weapon being examined.
Thank you!
Jim

[M ELEY]

Thank you, Jim! Don't say that too often or I'll get a big head!

But before I accept my award, I want to make sure that this isn't just another type of Dutch model before I go guessing that it is a prototype or private purchase assemblage. I know of of least two Dutch patterns that have this type hilt. Before the m1790, there was a very similar model pictured in Neumann, #48S, however, it also has the traditional curved blade. The point being, perhaps there IS a straight bladed pattern I'm unfamiliar with? Infantry favored straight bladed hangers of this type, as did naval. So, if it can't be pinned down as that, I would stick to 'private purchase naval', possibly one of a small batch and rather uncommon. A great piece, either way...

Dutch sword experts, any thoughts???

[M ELEY]

So far, can't find a straight bladed Dutch saber or hanger of this type with the pattern 1780-90 hilt. Evidence seems to point to my original thought.