Couronian Sword?

Lee · 6th April 2017, 09:01 PM

It is always frustrating to find a sword that does not fit into the classification schemes that one knows and this is one of those swords. The fairly heavily encrusted double edged blade does not appear to have a fuller and the encrustation prevents detection of pattern-welding, if it is there.

Overall length is about 32¾ inches and the blade measures 27¼ inches in length. The pommel and upper guard appear to be a single casting of bronze and the end of the tang is exposed at the tip of the middle lobe. Dot within circle within larger circle 'raindrops' decorate the pommel. The non-matching slender guard appears to be made of silvered bronze.

There does appear to be some genuine age here, so I do not believe this to be a modern fantasy. The theme of lobed pommels started well before the Viking Age and this hilt does not fall into the expected Viking types. The theme of 'raindrops' may be seen in many cultures and times, and one of those is the Migration Period in central Europe which is what I am thinking about the origin of this sword.

Your knowledge and comments are invited.

Reventlov · 7th April 2017, 04:29 AM

Hi Lee,
Thanks for sharing this... I have some thoughts on the pommel in particular, and am looking forwards to hearing other members opinions on this item.

If it is genuine, I suspect that this sword is of Baltic origin. This type of bronze-cast lobed pommel has been found in many archaeological finds from the territory of the pagan Curonians in modern Latvia, and in smaller numbers in neighbouring countries. These swords date to between the 11th and early 13th centuries, and may represent a local product of the pagan Baltic tribes derived from the more familiar, earlier Scandinavian styles of lobed pommels. The dot-in-circle motif can be found decorating several other pommels and crossguards.

best,
Mark

Lee · 8th April 2017, 03:34 PM

Mark,
I find your attribution most compelling! Thank you! Though not included with my photos, the aperture for the tang at the top of the pommel is very similar to that in the second photo that you have shown, though perhaps a little bit smaller and this upper hilt does appear to be solid. Also the dominant bulbous central lobe as seen in all of your photos is often associated with an eastern European origin in the Viking Age, so why not in closely following times?

In your last image, the similarity between the sword presented in this thread and #6 was striking (and searching the place name gave me only one hit: original paper Artūrs Tomsons: Ornamentation on the Hilts of Couronian (T1) Swords from the 11th-13th Century).

I have generated a side by side comparison of the pommels, brightening the image so that at least one 'raindrop' is evident on that central lobe as well. The cross guard still remains a mystery as the cross guards shown in the cited paper are more robust and consistent with the upper guards.

Thank you, gentlemen, hopefully more members will also share their observations.

Lee · 8th April 2017, 04:17 PM

So, off I went searching for 'Couronian sword' and I found a picture of this very hilt featured on the Hurstwic site; following that clue and having to rely on Google's cache of an old SFI thread from 2008, there is someone looking for information on this sword. I am assuming that Arthur Thomson from Riga, Latvia is the author of the paper above and he was looking for more information on the sword being considered here. He remarked 'To my mind it seems that it can be of Eastern Baltic origin and can be dated approximately to 11.-12. centuries. I am writing an article about Couronian swords and any info could be useful!'

Further searching yielded another paper from 2012 -
Artūrs Tomsons: Symbolism of medieval swords from the territory of Latvia during the 11th–13th centuries available here!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 8th April 2017, 06:00 PM

Salaams Lee, I commend this webpage to Forum https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/am...tr/ib_4_2.html and have copied in the ancient artwork as below ~ The bulk of webpage content is at reference and is essential reading.
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Reventlov · 10th April 2017, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

So, off I went searching for 'Couronian sword' and I found a picture of this very hilt featured on the Hurstwic site...

How fortuitous!

I agree that the crossguard seems a little out of place, and completely dissimilar to every example of Curonian swords I have seen so far.

Tomsons seems to be the authority on this subject, and has a few other relevant articles, but not in English as far as I know. Vytautas Kazakevicius has also done some work on this, and compiled a list of 64 examples in museums in "On one type of Baltic sword of the Viking period".

Lee · 16th April 2017, 10:12 PM

Many thanks Reventlov, you have opened a crack in my ignorance of Baltic sword forms and much information is now pouring through!

I have found the following academic writings to be especially pertinent, to have an English summary or be in English and also available on the internet with a little searching:

Kazakevičius, Vytautas, IX-XIII a. baltų kalavijai, Vilnius: Lietuvos Istorijos Institutas, 1996. [English summary from p.125-143.]

Kazakevičius, Vytautas, "On One Type of Baltic Sword of the Viking Period," Archaeologica Baltica 2, Vilnius, p. 117-132 (1997). [English language]

Tomsons, Artūrs, "Kuršu (T1 tipa) zobeny rokturu ornaments 11. - 13. gs.," Pētījumi Kuršu senatnē. Rakstu krājums. Latvijas Nacionālā Vēstures muzeja raksti, No. 14, Arheoloģija, p. 85-104. [Pages 103-104 are an English summary and captions to illustrations.]
https://www.academia.edu/4119215/Tom...an_Swords_2008

Tomsons, Artūrs, "Symbolism of Medieval Swords from the Territory of Latvia During the 11th - 13th Centuries," Folia Archaeologica 29 (2012), p. 145 - 160. [English language]

Iain · 17th April 2017, 01:04 PM

This article Kazakevicius by may be helpful.

http://www.lad.lt/data/com_ladlibrary/1435/117-132.pdf

I regret the last time I was in Lithuania I didn't seek out the main museum in Vilnius.

I am usually on the coast, oddly enough by the Curonian spit, but I don't recall the museum there having anything particularly relevant.

Lee · 21st November 2018, 06:38 PM

Tomáš Vlasatý has also prepared an article on this sword which may be found at:

http://sagy.vikingove.cz/kuronsky-me...ukrome-sbirky/

It will be necessary to click the 'translate' button in the lower right corner three or four times to bring up an English translation

fernando · 21st November 2018, 08:01 PM

Something wrong with the link, Lee ?
... It shows an error message ... and a blank page

.

BerberDagger · 21st November 2018, 10:00 PM

Viking Baltic sword ! Usual type . Nice example ! Quite different from Nordic exemplar ! Here one from my collection .

BerberDagger · 21st November 2018, 10:01 PM

Here pics sorry

Lee · 22nd November 2018, 03:59 PM

Fernando ... please try the link again later, it worked for me ... but I have had the error you describe previously and a translation of the error message suggested that maybe the site is using a scripted interface in front of a database (as do these forums) and that the link between the two was malfunctioning (as sometimes happens here as well).

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerberDagger

Here one from my collection.

Drool - a very nice classic of Nordic type, type H I presume. Is there inlay or pattern-welding of the blade or covering decoration on the hilt?

6th April 2017, 09:01 PM	#1
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Couronian Sword? It is always frustrating to find a sword that does not fit into the classification schemes that one knows and this is one of those swords. The fairly heavily encrusted double edged blade does not appear to have a fuller and the encrustation prevents detection of pattern-welding, if it is there. Overall length is about 32¾ inches and the blade measures 27¼ inches in length. The pommel and upper guard appear to be a single casting of bronze and the end of the tang is exposed at the tip of the middle lobe. Dot within circle within larger circle 'raindrops' decorate the pommel. The non-matching slender guard appears to be made of silvered bronze. There does appear to be some genuine age here, so I do not believe this to be a modern fantasy. The theme of lobed pommels started well before the Viking Age and this hilt does not fall into the expected Viking types. The theme of 'raindrops' may be seen in many cultures and times, and one of those is the Migration Period in central Europe which is what I am thinking about the origin of this sword. Your knowledge and comments are invited. Attached Images

7th April 2017, 04:29 AM	#2
Reventlov Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 132	Hi Lee, Thanks for sharing this... I have some thoughts on the pommel in particular, and am looking forwards to hearing other members opinions on this item. If it is genuine, I suspect that this sword is of Baltic origin. This type of bronze-cast lobed pommel has been found in many archaeological finds from the territory of the pagan Curonians in modern Latvia, and in smaller numbers in neighbouring countries. These swords date to between the 11th and early 13th centuries, and may represent a local product of the pagan Baltic tribes derived from the more familiar, earlier Scandinavian styles of lobed pommels. The dot-in-circle motif can be found decorating several other pommels and crossguards. best, Mark Attached Images

8th April 2017, 03:34 PM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Caught by the 'raindrops' Mark, I find your attribution most compelling! Thank you! Though not included with my photos, the aperture for the tang at the top of the pommel is very similar to that in the second photo that you have shown, though perhaps a little bit smaller and this upper hilt does appear to be solid. Also the dominant bulbous central lobe as seen in all of your photos is often associated with an eastern European origin in the Viking Age, so why not in closely following times? In your last image, the similarity between the sword presented in this thread and #6 was striking (and searching the place name gave me only one hit: original paper Artūrs Tomsons: Ornamentation on the Hilts of Couronian (T1) Swords from the 11th-13th Century). I have generated a side by side comparison of the pommels, brightening the image so that at least one 'raindrop' is evident on that central lobe as well. The cross guard still remains a mystery as the cross guards shown in the cited paper are more robust and consistent with the upper guards. Thank you, gentlemen, hopefully more members will also share their observations. Attached Images

8th April 2017, 04:17 PM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	The Internet can be amazing... So, off I went searching for 'Couronian sword' and I found a picture of this very hilt featured on the Hurstwic site; following that clue and having to rely on Google's cache of an old SFI thread from 2008, there is someone looking for information on this sword. I am assuming that Arthur Thomson from Riga, Latvia is the author of the paper above and he was looking for more information on the sword being considered here. He remarked 'To my mind it seems that it can be of Eastern Baltic origin and can be dated approximately to 11.-12. centuries. I am writing an article about Couronian swords and any info could be useful!' Further searching yielded another paper from 2012 - Artūrs Tomsons: Symbolism of medieval swords from the territory of Latvia during the 11th–13th centuries available here!

8th April 2017, 06:00 PM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams Lee, I commend this webpage to Forum https://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/am...tr/ib_4_2.html and have copied in the ancient artwork as below ~ The bulk of webpage content is at reference and is essential reading. Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Attached Images

16th April 2017, 10:12 PM	#7
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	Literature Citations Many thanks Reventlov, you have opened a crack in my ignorance of Baltic sword forms and much information is now pouring through! I have found the following academic writings to be especially pertinent, to have an English summary or be in English and also available on the internet with a little searching: Kazakevičius, Vytautas, IX-XIII a. baltų kalavijai, Vilnius: Lietuvos Istorijos Institutas, 1996. [English summary from p.125-143.] Kazakevičius, Vytautas, "On One Type of Baltic Sword of the Viking Period," Archaeologica Baltica 2, Vilnius, p. 117-132 (1997). [English language] Tomsons, Artūrs, "Kuršu (T1 tipa) zobeny rokturu ornaments 11. - 13. gs.," Pētījumi Kuršu senatnē. Rakstu krājums. Latvijas Nacionālā Vēstures muzeja raksti, No. 14, Arheoloģija, p. 85-104. [Pages 103-104 are an English summary and captions to illustrations.] https://www.academia.edu/4119215/Tom...an_Swords_2008 Tomsons, Artūrs, "Symbolism of Medieval Swords from the Territory of Latvia During the 11th - 13th Centuries," Folia Archaeologica 29 (2012), p. 145 - 160. [English language]

17th April 2017, 01:04 PM	#8
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	This article Kazakevicius by may be helpful. http://www.lad.lt/data/com_ladlibrary/1435/117-132.pdf I regret the last time I was in Lithuania I didn't seek out the main museum in Vilnius. I am usually on the coast, oddly enough by the Curonian spit, but I don't recall the museum there having anything particularly relevant.

21st November 2018, 06:38 PM	#9
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	For more information and images... Tomáš Vlasatý has also prepared an article on this sword which may be found at: http://sagy.vikingove.cz/kuronsky-me...ukrome-sbirky/ It will be necessary to click the 'translate' button in the lower right corner three or four times to bring up an English translation

21st November 2018, 08:01 PM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Something wrong with the link, Lee ? ... It shows an error message ... and a blank page .

21st November 2018, 10:00 PM	#11
BerberDagger Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 247	Viking Baltic sword ! Usual type . Nice example ! Quite different from Nordic exemplar ! Here one from my collection .

21st November 2018, 10:01 PM	#12
BerberDagger Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 247	Pics Here pics sorry Attached Images