Barbary corsairs/swords

[M ELEY]

OK, I know we're been down this path before with pirate weapons (one of my favorite subjects!), so here goes with another question. The recent Zanzibar sword got my interest up. In regards to the Barbary Corsairs and Algerian pirates of the 18th-early 19th century, of the swords from those lands (Rif Valley, Morocco, etc), which had the most likeliness of being carried to sea- the Berber saber, the nimcha/Zanzibar sword, the saif, the flyssa, or ? Most of the Berber sabers I've seen seem to be more mid-19th century and of course, there are those 'wedding nimcha' that keep turning up!
I know that sea-faring warriors carried whatever they laid hands on, but realistically, I wonder what museums or records show they typically carried? Many of the pics I've seen have them carrying "fantasy-type" clipped point shamshirs or talwar. NOT likely! What of the Moroccan daggers (kourami, I think hey are called?). Opinions, please?

[chevalier]

i think the mooroccan daggers are called "koumiya"

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Mark,
I'm right with ya! Definitely an interesting faction of piracy, and the thought of what weapons might have been used brings lots of ideas. It seems like this was big business based in ports of the Maghreb (known as the Barbary Coast for the prevalent Berber inhabitants )from medieval times through the 19th century.
Since these scalawags were primarily procuring slaves for this industry in Ottoman controlled regions, it would seem that the weapons of that Empire were likely most common. While combat at sea was surely not unusual, much of thier action consisted of raids on land, so swords of regular size, especially like the Moroccan 'nimcha' or sa'if probably became regularly seen. Since these type hilts were known in the familiar form by the 17th century (as seen in English paintings being worn by two English nobles in the instances I've seen) it would seem these were certainly one form used. The appearance in English paintings may be from either British interaction with these pirates, or from diplomatic-trade interaction.

I have seen some references on the Barbary Pirates which had line illustrations using the Ottoman kilij with the pistol grip hilt, and it does not seem far fetched to consider yataghans in thier sashes.

While these thoughts reflect logical candidates for the weapons most likely used, it would be great to see some of the paintings etc illustrating the perspective and possibly license of the artists posted here.

I really doubt the flyssa ever got to sea, unless one of the short dagger type. The full size ones remain a mystery as to how they were actually used, and they were only around for a short time in the 19th century.

Another mystery, those 'Berber' sabres with profiled points, they too seem a 19th century phenomenon said to be from Morocco, yet they have eluded any contemporary notice from any study or review of arms from there. They do seem like a great weapon for pirate use though, even if from a simply aesthetic view.

I really look forward to seeing Barbary Pirates illustrations, and lets see some nimchas!!!

All best regards,
Jim

[M ELEY]

Amen,Jim, and thanks for responding. Yes, I do hope someone can produce some illustrations from the era to enlighten us. I had forgotten about the slavery angle (other than the Midaeval slavery of the Corsairs taking Christians as slaves and the Maltese corsairs taking the Muslim pilgrims in kind). Land raids would have likely shown regular-sized swords as you stated. Ottoman swords make sense, and I see your point about the flyssa and Berber sabers. What would an Algerian pirate of the day carry, I wonder?

[Rick]

A place to start .

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...h+Images&gbv=2

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Mark,
I enjoyed revisiting the pirate topic too! Its funny, I've of course been familiar with the term Barbary Pirates for as long as I can remember, but never really thought about them specifically in terms of who they really were or what thier weapons might have been. I really had no idea these pirates had such a vast range of operation, thinking they simply stayed close to the coast of North Africa. It appears they 'went shopping' for slaves not only in the Meditteranean but to England and further north, even to Iceland!

In looking at the term Barbary Pirates, as noted this derives from the Berbers and that association is well known, but became very curious about the term 'corsair'. In considering the pirates from the Golden Age, we have learned of the term Buccaneers as well as Privateers, and know that the Privateers were essentially 'licensed' to prey on shipping with royally issued 'letters of marque'. These often dubious documents would allow the bearer to officially plunder the ships of any 'enemy' power.

The term 'corsair' apparantly derives from this concept, and in French parlance refers to the commissioning document from the French king. The letter of marque in this case was termed 'lettre de course', which means literally 'racing letter' (race= la course). In French euphemism, the 'race' was the chasing down of enemy ships as prey in this sense. With the well established French presence in the Maghreb, it appears the term became associated colloquially to these Barbary pirates, with reference to Ottoman 'corsairs'.

Sometimes it seems like we get sidetracked by terminology, but in many cases when utilizing resources such as contemporary narratives it helps to better understand the variations of terms referring to a particular subject.
With that, returning to our Moroccan nimcha/sa'if , these were used along the entire littoral of the Maghreb, although commonly thought of as Moroccan. I would think that these would have been in use parallel to the variety of familiar Ottoman weapons.

On other discussions on these Moroccan nimchas, it has long been generally held that these hilts were likely influenced by Italian swords with similar quillon development ("A Late 15th Century Italian Sword", Anthony North, Connoisseur magazine, Dec.1975, p.238-241). I had always presumed that this influence was probably through trade contact, but wonder if the influence might have arisen via incursions into Italy of these raiders as well.

Great topic, its great learning more on these guys!!

[fernando]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... What would an Algerian pirate of the day carry, I wonder?

Apparently (also) the crossbow was part of their gear; not only used by Algerians but also by other Mahgreb corsairs, like from Larache and Tetuan.

[RhysMichael]

I don't have an answer but I may be able to point you towards somewhere that does. The National Maritime Museum in London has a huge collection of documents on pirates and did a 3 year exhibition on it called "Pirates Fact and Fiction" from 1993 to I think 1995
here is thier pirate research page
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.632


and for africa this may help from the same place

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/pri...y=&startrow=85



The Story of the Barbary Corsairs Author: Stanley Lane-Poole Lieut. J. D. Jerrold Kelley 1890 is here
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/22169...-h/22169-h.htm

and more on pirates from Project Gutenberg

http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Pirate...c._(Bookshelf)

[M ELEY]

Sorry to pull up this thread again, but another question and clarification.
OK, so from what we're talked about here, if one were collecting pirate swords of the Barbary Corsairs, the best weapon of representation would be the nimcha (Zanzibar swords, Berber sabers, koumiya, flyssa all having their "issues" as to origin, when they actually appeared on the scene, etc).

Jim mentions the Turkish kilij and yataghans as being appropriate representations of Turkish pirate weapons.

Any opinions on the MOST LIKELY weapons used by the Malay pirates? (parang?)
Same quesion for the Chinese pirates? (ken or ?)
Finally, what would have been typical for the East Indian pirates? (tulwar, firingi, or some of the more exotic types, I wonder?)

[chevalier]

would chinese pirates use the lieyudao?

[kronckew]

this klewang is housed in a rough leather scabbard with the fur still on it, may be deer hide. it came from the netherlands and was supposedly taken from a pirate somewhere in the dutch east indies or malaya.


20in. blade, 1.5 in. wide, 1/4 in. wide an inch from the guard, swells to 3/8 at the guard, single off centre fuller to 3/4in. from tip,first half of the spine is hollowed out in a groove then the final half has the sides of the spine grooved to 1 inch from the tip, blade is 3/16 thick at that point, and is unmarked. 5in. brass grip is rectangular in section with clipped edges, brass pommel appears swaged on the end. guard is also separate. leather grip binding appears to be a later addition. brass is undecorated. blue/gold colored cord knotwork & suspension loop on scabbard is my addition so i can hang it up.

[fernando]

Hi Mark,

Allow me to go back in time, like the XVI century and a bit westwards in territory, like the Gulf of Oman.
The attached picture is a watercoulor from a set of seventy six, which belong to the Casanatense codice, the first illustrated work available on the discoveries route, belonging to an unnamed Portuguese author.
The legend inserted in the painting says: NOUTAQUES. THEY ARE THIEVES THAT ARE ROBBING ON THE SEA..
The Noutaques ( or Nautaques or Naitaques) lived in the coast, between Ormuz and the Cape Jasque, in places like Guadel, near Muscat.
Despite the apparent fantasy put in the painting, the veracity of the situation is confirmed by several other chronists of the period, who considered these guys as "moor" corsairs. One of them, Gaspar Correia, wrote: THESE NAUTAQUES SAIL AND ROW VERY FAST TERRADAS, AND EVEN THE ROWING MEN ARE ARCHERS THAT CARRY ON THEIR BACKS THE BOW AND THE ARROWS. AND AS THEY GO ROWING, THEY DROP THE OAR AND STAND UP WITH THE BOW, THROWING ARROWS WITH THREE CORNERED HEADS, TWO OR THREE AT A TIME, ONE BETWEEN EACH FINGER, WHICH LOOSE THEIR SHAFTS AS THEY HIT THE TARGET. THEY ARE VERY DEXTEROUS AND ACCURATE IN THE THROWING. .
Martim Afonso de Sousa and the Italian Balbi precise that: THE (these) MALABAR CORSAIRS USED BOWS AND ARROWS, AND THEIR BOATS WERE ARMED WITH FALCONETS AND ARQUEBUSES.

I thaught you might like to have this material for your piracy files .

.

[M ELEY]

Wow! Kronckew, were you holding out on us?! That's a very nice piece and definately looks the type for Malay pirate (clipped point blade with both Chinese/Japanese influence). If you ever decide to part with it...

Fernando, thanks so much for this fascinating "early" depiction of these particular Corsairs. Interesting that they are referred to as 'Moorish' and then later as "Malabar" corsairs. The pirates of the western Indian coast using bows seems very logical, especially in the earlier periods before matchlock. The mention of Malabar makes me wonder if the sea rovers from that particular island might have carried Malabar/Moplah knives on their quests. Anyway, thanks for the material!

[Gavin Nugent]

I thought I'd bring this ole thread back from the depths and add to it what I think could possibly be a pirate's nimcha.

regards

Gav

[LPCA]

Bonjour,

Yes, naturally, the nimchas of the privateers were shorter, as all the sabres of navy.
On the pics here under, 3 of the top are Nimchas (the first one for cavalry, second for cavalry or foot soldier and the third for marine).
The 2 of the bottom are Arabic saïfs (the first one for the cavalry and the second for marine).
The Nimcha of navy has a cut blade of baskethilt (discussion made 2 or 3 years ago).
Louis-Pierre

[LPCA]

OUPS!!!. Ihave forgottent the way to paste pics on replies.... sorry!!

Let's try with this link.

http://blade.japet.com/POST.htm

[Gonzalo G]

Great pieces!

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by LPCA

OUPS!!!. Ihave forgottent the way to paste pics on replies.... sorry!!

Let's try with this link.

http://blade.japet.com/POST.htm

Hi Louis Pierre,
The link works great, and again these are great examples, and if I may add some notes from my references that give I hope what are essentially correct observations. I know you have done a great deal of research on these, as on a number of these weapon forms, so I look forward to your comments as well.
The top three as you note are Moroccan sa'ifs, and called collectively nimchas. As Elgood notes the nimcha term applies technically to short swords, so the maritime use example (#3) would actually be in accord with the term.

The #4 example is of the form I believe regarded as a Zanzibari sa'if, and typically used in Yemen. These are distinguished by the ring on the counterguard, as identified by Charles Buttin (Rumilly, 1933). I recall a group of these acquired from a Yemeni armoury, about 30 or 40, and all were apparantly furbished in Zanzibar, and sent to Yemen. The shape of the hilt is similar to embossed silver examples identified as Hadhrami by Elgood ("Arms and Armour of Arabia,1994,p.13, 2.9).

The #5 is distinctly maritime as noted, and if I recall correctly these with the widened blade at the tip, were discussed by Elgood (p.10, 2.1) noting the similarity of the heavy end blade to Moplah knives which of course neatly aligns with the constant trade in the Indian Ocean.

As noted previously, it seems that the blades on these varied dramatically, and the nimcha term was likely collectively applied to all swords from the Maghreb that had this distinct hilt with its multiple quillon arrangement.

Fantastic grouping! and definitely of the type associated widely with not only the Barbary Pirates, but those from regions in Muscat as well.

All the best,
Jim