tulwar or talwar

Henk · 11th June 2005, 07:02 PM

I picked up three tulwars. I'm not familiar with these swords and would like to have some opinions and advice to clean them or not and how. Especially the first should be cleaned in my opinion. The grip shows some silverish inlays or remains of it and the blade has three copper dots and shows patina. When you clean this one the patina is gone but what might be underneath it?

Henk · 11th June 2005, 07:07 PM

In my opinion a rather plain tulwar. Ideas or opinions on this one?

Henk · 11th June 2005, 07:15 PM

This one has a rapier blade. Could this be a Firangi like Stone describes it in his book on page 229? The hilt is not a khanda type as far as I can see it. These three are strangers for me, but I do like them. Certainly the first and the third one.

Tim Simmons · 11th June 2005, 07:20 PM

Hi Henk, I would only clean this with steel wool and some penetrating oil.Any patches of stuborn rust might be scraped off with a blunt table knife,I would not use any abrasive paper, only as a last resort in small areas.Tim

Rick · 11th June 2005, 07:48 PM

Hi Henk , I'd be very leery of cleaning any of them .
Reason ?
The patina is extremely thick on all of these examples and I would fear that when cleaned they just wouldn't look 'right' .

I can't really explain what 'right' is it's a little too subjective .
Anyhow , my two cents worth .

Henk · 11th June 2005, 09:24 PM

Thanks Rick, I really apreciate your opinion. A good patina can show more than a completely cleaned item without any traces. Cleaning must have an extremely good reason and bring up something more valueble than the patina that shows the age of an item.

Jens Nordlunde · 11th June 2005, 09:28 PM

Henk, about the first tulwar you write that it has three copper dots. Am I correct when I guess that they are in a row?

You did a good buy, even when I don’t know what you paid. Especially the last one is interesting. Is it possible that you can take close up pictures of the hilts and the discs from above? While you are at it, why not take a few shots of the blades

?

Congratulations on the find

.

M.carter · 11th June 2005, 11:59 PM

I like the first one. The second one is also nice, but is way over re-sharpened, the blade looks strange. Call me mad but, the patina looks BEAUTIFUL! I would keep it as it is if I were you.

EDIT: One question, are the hilts loose? This issue is very common with tulwars, both new and antique.

Rick · 12th June 2005, 01:03 AM

Henk , the only thing I would check is if these blades have been varnished or lacquered ; if they have then I would think that removing the old applied finish would be acceptable .
Then I would apply Rennaisance Wax as a substitute .

As you probably know it was not unusual for collectors of earlier times to varnish or lacquer their pieces to prevent rusting .

They are all beauties .

IMO sharpening shows an active career for the sword .

Andrew · 12th June 2005, 04:00 AM

Henk,

Is the straight-bladed example edged on both sides or is it a "back sword", edged only on one? Is it sharpened at all?

The tulwar hilt is not condusive to the thrust with a straight blade, as it doesn't permit the wrist extension necessary. I'm puzzled by the mating of what appears to be a thrusting blade with this form of hilt.

Thank you for sharing these with us, Henk.

tom hyle · 12th June 2005, 06:59 AM

Mind you it's pretty dandy for a backhanded thrust of the sort that can be sent around a sheild.

11th June 2005, 07:02 PM	#1
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	tulwar or talwar I picked up three tulwars. I'm not familiar with these swords and would like to have some opinions and advice to clean them or not and how. Especially the first should be cleaned in my opinion. The grip shows some silverish inlays or remains of it and the blade has three copper dots and shows patina. When you clean this one the patina is gone but what might be underneath it? Attached Images

11th June 2005, 07:07 PM	#2
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	the second tulwar In my opinion a rather plain tulwar. Ideas or opinions on this one? Attached Images

11th June 2005, 07:15 PM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	The third tulwar This one has a rapier blade. Could this be a Firangi like Stone describes it in his book on page 229? The hilt is not a khanda type as far as I can see it. These three are strangers for me, but I do like them. Certainly the first and the third one. Attached Images

11th June 2005, 07:20 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Hi Henk, I would only clean this with steel wool and some penetrating oil.Any patches of stuborn rust might be scraped off with a blunt table knife,I would not use any abrasive paper, only as a last resort in small areas.Tim Last edited by Tim Simmons; 11th June 2005 at 07:43 PM. Reason: spelling

11th June 2005, 09:28 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Henk, about the first tulwar you write that it has three copper dots. Am I correct when I guess that they are in a row? You did a good buy, even when I don’t know what you paid. Especially the last one is interesting. Is it possible that you can take close up pictures of the hilts and the discs from above? While you are at it, why not take a few shots of the blades? Congratulations on the find.

11th June 2005, 07:48 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Hi Henk , I'd be very leery of cleaning any of them . Reason ? The patina is extremely thick on all of these examples and I would fear that when cleaned they just wouldn't look 'right' . I can't really explain what 'right' is it's a little too subjective . Anyhow , my two cents worth .

11th June 2005, 09:24 PM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Thanks Rick, I really apreciate your opinion. A good patina can show more than a completely cleaned item without any traces. Cleaning must have an extremely good reason and bring up something more valueble than the patina that shows the age of an item.

11th June 2005, 11:59 PM	#8
M.carter Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 176	I like the first one. The second one is also nice, but is way over re-sharpened, the blade looks strange. Call me mad but, the patina looks BEAUTIFUL! I would keep it as it is if I were you. EDIT: One question, are the hilts loose? This issue is very common with tulwars, both new and antique. Last edited by M.carter; 12th June 2005 at 01:20 AM.

12th June 2005, 01:03 AM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Henk , the only thing I would check is if these blades have been varnished or lacquered ; if they have then I would think that removing the old applied finish would be acceptable . Then I would apply Rennaisance Wax as a substitute . As you probably know it was not unusual for collectors of earlier times to varnish or lacquer their pieces to prevent rusting . They are all beauties . IMO sharpening shows an active career for the sword .

12th June 2005, 04:00 AM	#10
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Henk, Is the straight-bladed example edged on both sides or is it a "back sword", edged only on one? Is it sharpened at all? The tulwar hilt is not condusive to the thrust with a straight blade, as it doesn't permit the wrist extension necessary. I'm puzzled by the mating of what appears to be a thrusting blade with this form of hilt. Thank you for sharing these with us, Henk.

12th June 2005, 06:59 AM	#11
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Mind you it's pretty dandy for a backhanded thrust of the sort that can be sent around a sheild.