Unusual grip solution on a klewang

[VVV]

Here is a probably Sumatran (Jambi?) klewang with, for me at least, a unique feature - a trigger-resembling resting place for the index finger.
It feels very comfortable when using it.
Are there any similar solutions in swords from other regions?
I can't recall that I have seen it in any other swords from the Malay archipelago.

Michael

[Battara]

Well that's different.

I can see better grip, but limited in movement with the wrist.

[asomotif]

Wow. pretty unique feature.

I have never seen anything similar which is so clearly additional grip for one hand use. (on ethnographic weapons that is. On new fantasy knives it looks more like a standard to have such protrusions )

I can see better grip, but limited in movement with the wrist.

Maybe this is more a tool than a weapon and therefore comfort was more important than free movement...?

Best regards,
Willem

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Battara

Well that's different.

I can see better grip, but limited in movement with the wrist.

How is this limiting Battara?

A very interesting piece Michael.

[Battara]

Hard to describe in writing. The finger hold would catch when making some wrist movements with this piece. Not saying that it would be impossible to use, just a little limiting. However, I am not as familiar with Indonesian silat forms as I am with Filipino forms.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Battara

Hard to describe in writing. The finger hold would catch when making some wrist movements with this piece. Not saying that it would be impossible to use, just a little limiting. However, I am not as familiar with Indonesian silat forms as I am with Filipino forms.

I beg to differ, when looking at biomechanics, I do not think it will have any effect on wrist movement at all.
Put on a thick chunky ring on your forefinger if you like (for effect ) and grab a guardless sword off the wall. Grip your fist tight around the hilt and rotate your wrist at every possible extreme angle and you'll see your fingers do not move at all, I don't understand what it could catch on?

I do think it is an ingenious addition that offers a sort of a rest function.

As these pieces were not always a weapon but doubled as a weapon and a machete, I know if I was holding it and chopping for hours whilst beating down new path in the jungles, my hand, wrist and forearm would want a break now and then between stikes.
I feel the ring hook offers at any point in time, a relaxed grip with the natural position of the forefinger, thumb and gravity allowing it to be held loosely in your hand and not falling to the ground.
Certainly in combat too, like hollywood movies, persons have dropped blades due to hard and well placed stikes, having this catch point where it is offers some chance of instant recovery rather than dropping the piece.

""I might add too, that in relation to a sweating hand and having this hook in place, it always keeps the hand in the correct place on the hilt in relation to the cutting edge.""

My $1.95.

Gav

[David]

Originally Posted by freebooter

I beg to differ, when looking at biomechanics, I do not think it will have any effect on wrist movement at all.
Put on a thick chunky ring on your forefinger if you like (for effect ) and grab a guardless sword off the wall. Grip your fist tight around the hilt and rotate your wrist at every possible extreme angle and you'll see your fingers do not move at all, I don't understand what it could catch on?

I do think it is an ingenious addition that offers a sort of a rest function.

As these pieces were not always a weapon but doubled as a weapon and a machete, I know if I was holding it and chopping for hours whilst beating down new path in the jungles, my hand, wrist and forearm would want a break now and then between stikes.
I feel the ring hook offers at any point in time, a relaxed grip with the natural position of the forefinger, thumb and gravity allowing it to be held loosely in your hand and not falling to the ground.
Certainly in combat too, like hollywood movies, persons have dropped blades due to hard and well placed stikes, having this catch point where it is offers some chance of instant recovery rather than dropping the piece.

""I might add too, that in relation to a sweating hand and having this hook in place, it always keeps the hand in the correct place on the hilt in relation to the cutting edge.""

My $1.95.

Gav

What he said...
I don't think this finger hook would be limiting at all and in fact it would give you more control of the blade...

[mohd]

Originally Posted by VVV

Here is a probably Sumatran (Jambi?) klewang with, for me at least, a unique feature - a trigger-resembling resting place for the index finger.
It feels very comfortable when using it.
Are there any similar solutions in swords from other regions?
I can't recall that I have seen it in any other swords from the Malay archipelago.

Michael

Beautiful Klewang, Michael!
The blade has a nice flow!
Anyhow IMVHO the unique feature is not meant for index finger resting place but just a uniquely shaped single guard.
We Malays generally have small hand which also means small grip.
So placing index finger at the front of the rather large guard is uncomfortable and in fact it might inflict pain and a sure cause for blisters in between of the index finger and the middle finger.
Malay fighter (i.e. Pendekar) or warrior (i.e. Panglima) or farmer (i.e. Petani) just never use glove

mohd

[VVV]

Thanks for the added input.
PepperSkull, I have not tried a sub-hilt bowie, mostly I am playing around with Indonesian and Filipino blades and I find it hard to simulate it, not having anyone around.
Usually I place the finger along the blade when in the hammer grip position for better thrust aiming/blade alignment and close it if expected heavy resistance on impact, like when thrusting tree trunks for grip practice. But for really heavy knives maybe the sub-hilt solution is better?
Mohd, actually I am about the same size as Alam Shah (on the forum) but my hands are maybe slightly larger. If I hold it behind the protrusion it only fits close to 2,5 of my fingers! When I have the index finger on the protrusion it's only the little finger that is resting on the pommel.
I never use a glove for training except when full contact sparring. This is not a golf forum.

Michael

[VVV]

Originally Posted by VVV

Thanks for the added input.
PepperSkull, I have not tried a sub-hilt bowie, mostly I am playing around with Indonesian and Filipino blades and I find it hard to simulate it, not having anyone around.
Usually I place the finger along the blade when in the hammer grip position for better thrust aiming/blade alignment and close it if expected heavy resistance on impact, like when thrusting tree trunks for grip practice. But for really heavy knives maybe the sub-hilt solution is better?
Mohd, actually I am about the same size as Alam Shah (on the forum) but my hands are maybe slightly larger. If I hold it behind the protrusion it only fits close to 2,5 of my fingers! When I have the index finger on the protrusion it's only the little finger that is resting on the pommel.
I never use a glove for training except when full contact sparring. This is not a golf forum.

Michael

PS One of my Silat practice friends is quite small, smaller than most of his Indonesian and Malaysian instructors actually, and I will check if he can use it behind the "thing". Unfortunately he lives in Norway and will first be over here in September so it will take a while but I will let you know.

[mohd]

Thanks for the explanation Michael
Actually I'm not an MA practitioner thuogh
I just give my two cents base on my experience handling that sort of blade in agricultural usage
It just looks like a minor disturbance to freely manoeuver my handgrip to the handle!
Anyhow, it's just the one in my mental vision and it's not the actual practical experience while holding the handle of the klewang in person

mohd

[VVV]

Thanks Mohd,

I agree that for farming this innovation probably isn't a good idea.
It's a pity we can't all meet live instead so we can try out and handle the weapons we discuss...

Michael