1576 dated musket - unknown marking

adrian · 30th July 2024, 06:32 AM

I am hoping that someone here can identify this stamp for me please, I think that it is distinct enough to be a gunmaker's mark, rather than some sort of decoration.

It is on the breech of a 1576 dated Matchlock musket, it is quite a weighty piece, in 10 bore. All the provenance I have is that it was part of the Apethorpe Hall arms & armour that was auctioned in 1978.

The barrel, once about 48" has been cut down to 39.25" - whether to lighten it for use in the Civil War is a matter of speculation. It has, in modern times, been restocked and restored, some of the lock parts are perhaps original - but mainly the barrel is of historic interest.

Raf · 30th July 2024, 02:01 PM

Presumably you are aware that the Apethorpe arms and armour were in part from the collection of the mid nineteenth century collector Sir Samuel Rush Meyrick, Bart. via Dr. William Meyrick, and Leonard Brassey, Esq., MP.
Adds interest.

Jim McDougall · 30th July 2024, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raf

Presumably you are aware that the Apethorpe arms and armour were in part from the collection of the mid nineteenth century collector Sir Samuel Rush Meyrick, Bart. via Dr. William Meyrick, and Leonard Brassey, Esq., MP.
Adds interest.

MOST salient addition Raf!!! Meyrick was one of the key sages of arms and armor study whose venerable writings were the foundation of the Kernoozers

and DeCossey, Dean, Laking et al.

The very notion that this example was from these esteemed collection would suggest that more on these markings must exist in the notes and works of these gentlemen. It seems as if I have seen this very arrangement, if not even the date or close to it in similar fashion on another gun.

How I miss Michael (Matchlock).

Jim McDougall · 30th July 2024, 05:29 PM

Just realized where I'd seen that serpent mark...it was a guild oriented marking used by armorers in Milan, and seems to have been used in some variation. In some references it is suggested to be a 'makers' mark, however I think that is an assumption rather than to a recorded maker.

It seems that when a date is applied to a sword blade openly, without other lettering, marks etc. that perhaps it is a commemorative, possibly placed to recall an important event date to the owner (this 1576 date seems scratched in by the owner with the erratic scripting).

fernando · 30th July 2024, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...How I miss Michael (Matchlock)...

Indeed Jim !

fernando · 30th July 2024, 08:29 PM

The catalogue:

adrian · 31st July 2024, 12:27 AM

Thank you gentlemen, I had encountered mention of Sir Samuel Rush Meyrick in connection with the Apethorpe Hall collection but had no realised that in itself was significant. I will get in touch with the Royal Armouries, later this year, to request a search of the catalogue they hold of that collection.

30th July 2024, 06:32 AM	#1
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 125	1576 dated musket - unknown marking I am hoping that someone here can identify this stamp for me please, I think that it is distinct enough to be a gunmaker's mark, rather than some sort of decoration. It is on the breech of a 1576 dated Matchlock musket, it is quite a weighty piece, in 10 bore. All the provenance I have is that it was part of the Apethorpe Hall arms & armour that was auctioned in 1978. The barrel, once about 48" has been cut down to 39.25" - whether to lighten it for use in the Civil War is a matter of speculation. It has, in modern times, been restocked and restored, some of the lock parts are perhaps original - but mainly the barrel is of historic interest. Attached Images

30th July 2024, 02:01 PM	#2
Raf Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 252	Presumably you are aware that the Apethorpe arms and armour were in part from the collection of the mid nineteenth century collector Sir Samuel Rush Meyrick, Bart. via Dr. William Meyrick, and Leonard Brassey, Esq., MP. Adds interest.

30th July 2024, 05:29 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	Just realized where I'd seen that serpent mark...it was a guild oriented marking used by armorers in Milan, and seems to have been used in some variation. In some references it is suggested to be a 'makers' mark, however I think that is an assumption rather than to a recorded maker. It seems that when a date is applied to a sword blade openly, without other lettering, marks etc. that perhaps it is a commemorative, possibly placed to recall an important event date to the owner (this 1576 date seems scratched in by the owner with the erratic scripting).

30th July 2024, 08:29 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	The catalogue:

31st July 2024, 12:27 AM	#7
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 125	Thank you gentlemen, I had encountered mention of Sir Samuel Rush Meyrick in connection with the Apethorpe Hall collection but had no realised that in itself was significant. I will get in touch with the Royal Armouries, later this year, to request a search of the catalogue they hold of that collection.