New sword, Bosnia?

Nagawarrior · 11th December 2010, 09:17 PM

Just found this sword.
What do you think?
I'm thinking Bosnia.

Battara · 12th December 2010, 06:21 AM

Been a while - welcome back!

The hilt does not strike me as particularly Bosnian but more Afghanistan or there abouts...........

Nagawarrior · 12th December 2010, 10:22 AM

Nice to be able to submit a new piece for discussion Jose. Thanks for the welcome back.
This item was labled Russian in the little shop I found it at. I kinda had a Ottoman gut feeling from it. The little cirlces on the handle reminded me of the handles of Bosnian Bichaq. The lobed pommel also reminds of pieces from the Balkan area. The seller might have seen a similarity to the Russian Shashqa. I've seen the circles on Afgan pieces as well.
At 26" over all with 19" blade, its much larger than the typical Bichaq though. Look forward to futher comment.

ariel · 12th December 2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Been a while - welcome back!

The hilt does not strike me as particularly Bosnian but more Afghanistan or there abouts...........

Jose,
I think I know where the feeling comes from: the integral bolster. These were widespread on Bulgarian ( and, likely, nearby) examples.
Russian masters in Zlatoust made gorgeous yataghans, but, like many things Russians, those were grossly overdone and very decorative.
Recently, I got involved in the discussion of Crimean Tatar weapons: those were very similar to the Balkan Bulgarian karakulaks.
Would be very interesting to look at the close-ups: decorations might be revealing. I seem to be able to see some kind of circle with rays near the ricasso: Tatar tamga?
If that's the case, since the Crimea became a part of the Russian Empire, the "Russian" attribution might be somewhat correct.

Atlantia · 12th December 2010, 05:22 PM

It does look Balkan to me. Can we see the decoration on the scabbard and the stitching on the leather part close-up?

Nagawarrior · 12th December 2010, 06:49 PM

Here are some more pictures. I hope they help. Thank you for your input. Very much appreciated.

Atlantia · 12th December 2010, 06:56 PM

That curly wire connector where the leather is joined is a style I see on Greek/Balkan/Turkish pieces.
As Battara says, the circles are familiar from Afghan items, but now that we can see the other details, I'd say its more to the west.
It doesn't look Greek to me, possibly Turkish, but Balkan seems favourite (IMHO).
The decoration on the scabbard with the chevron and orb is very distinctive. Must be a giveaway clue for someone to ID it?

Nagawarrior · 1st April 2012, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nagawarrior

Just found this sword.
What do you think?
I'm thinking Bosnia.

Was looking at this piece today and just noticed a date on the pommel. You can see it in the pommel close-up there.
looks like 1... I believe thats 1000, So would convert to 1591. What ya all think?
Thanks,
Stephen*

ariel · 2nd April 2012, 02:43 AM

Now, with better details, I can only join the Ottoman/ Balkan voters.

As to 1581.... No way ! That would put it next in line to Met/Topkapi yataghans :-)

Nagawarrior · 2nd April 2012, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Now, with better details, I can only join the Ottoman/ Balkan voters.

As to 1581.... No way ! That would put it next in line to Met/Topkapi yataghans :-)

Perhaps its just a number, not a date. 1000 goats taken. :-) Who knows.

gp · 5th August 2022, 01:15 AM

interesting "discussion"even 11 years ago

I think Balkan and looking at the scabbard and hilt might even be narrowed down to southern parts of the former Yugoslavia
I have got a knife / small bichaq with the same grip / hilt : white bone and same circular decoration.
The decoration on the blade looks most interesting: I only have seen similar on small hunting pen or clasp knives

gp · 6th August 2022, 09:19 PM

enclosed the pictures of the bichaq from Croatia and 2 from Bosnia with similar decoration, so you can compare.
when I look at the grip / hilt of what the owner calls "sword", I would not call it a yataghan, but looks more like the long bichaqs of 40 cm

as for the grip/handle / hilt: the types for the bichaqs were derived from the several types yataghans in the Ottoman empire and found on the Balkans; from Makedonia, Bulgaria, parts of what is now known as Greece ( as the Greek world was way bigger than the present state!) through Albania, Serbia, Bosnia, Dalmatia and parts of Croatia...numbers 14 and 18 come close to the above "sword"

I would recommend cleaning the metal of the knife and scabbard either with some colorless olive oil and the leather as well or with some other leather prerserving material ( like for ancient saddle and saddle bags) to stop further deterioration and restore it a little to its former beauty

11th December 2010, 09:17 PM	#1
Nagawarrior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA Posts: 160	New sword, Bosnia? Just found this sword. What do you think? I'm thinking Bosnia. Attached Images

12th December 2010, 06:49 PM	#6
Nagawarrior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA Posts: 160	Here are some more pictures. I hope they help. Thank you for your input. Very much appreciated. Attached Images

12th December 2010, 06:56 PM	#7
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	That curly wire connector where the leather is joined is a style I see on Greek/Balkan/Turkish pieces. As Battara says, the circles are familiar from Afghan items, but now that we can see the other details, I'd say its more to the west. It doesn't look Greek to me, possibly Turkish, but Balkan seems favourite (IMHO). The decoration on the scabbard with the chevron and orb is very distinctive. Must be a giveaway clue for someone to ID it? Last edited by Atlantia; 12th December 2010 at 07:13 PM.

5th August 2022, 01:15 AM	#11
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 719	http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/images/editor/separator.gif interesting "discussion"even 11 years ago I think Balkan and looking at the scabbard and hilt might even be narrowed down to southern parts of the former Yugoslavia I have got a knife / small bichaq with the same grip / hilt : white bone and same circular decoration. The decoration on the blade looks most interesting: I only have seen similar on small hunting pen or clasp knives Last edited by gp; 5th August 2022 at 01:44 AM.

6th August 2022, 09:19 PM	#12
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 719	enclosed the pictures of the bichaq from Croatia and 2 from Bosnia with similar decoration, so you can compare. when I look at the grip / hilt of what the owner calls "sword", I would not call it a yataghan, but looks more like the long bichaqs of 40 cm as for the grip/handle / hilt: the types for the bichaqs were derived from the several types yataghans in the Ottoman empire and found on the Balkans; from Makedonia, Bulgaria, parts of what is now known as Greece ( as the Greek world was way bigger than the present state!) through Albania, Serbia, Bosnia, Dalmatia and parts of Croatia...numbers 14 and 18 come close to the above "sword" I would recommend cleaning the metal of the knife and scabbard either with some colorless olive oil and the leather as well or with some other leather prerserving material ( like for ancient saddle and saddle bags) to stop further deterioration and restore it a little to its former beauty Attached Images Last edited by gp; 7th August 2022 at 03:52 PM.

12th December 2010, 06:21 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Been a while - welcome back! The hilt does not strike me as particularly Bosnian but more Afghanistan or there abouts...........

12th December 2010, 10:22 AM	#3
Nagawarrior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA Posts: 160	Nice to be able to submit a new piece for discussion Jose. Thanks for the welcome back. This item was labled Russian in the little shop I found it at. I kinda had a Ottoman gut feeling from it. The little cirlces on the handle reminded me of the handles of Bosnian Bichaq. The lobed pommel also reminds of pieces from the Balkan area. The seller might have seen a similarity to the Russian Shashqa. I've seen the circles on Afgan pieces as well. At 26" over all with 19" blade, its much larger than the typical Bichaq though. Look forward to futher comment.

12th December 2010, 05:22 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	It does look Balkan to me. Can we see the decoration on the scabbard and the stitching on the leather part close-up?

2nd April 2012, 02:43 AM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Now, with better details, I can only join the Ottoman/ Balkan voters. As to 1581.... No way ! That would put it next in line to Met/Topkapi yataghans :-)