Zulu Walking Stick For Comment

Lew · 28th February 2009, 04:47 AM

I found this the other day seems early 20th century to me?

colin henshaw · 28th February 2009, 01:03 PM

Yes, in my opinion early 20th century...

Regards

Tim Simmons · 1st March 2009, 09:27 PM

Nice stick Lew. I would agree with Colin early 20th cent. It seems to be a fairly common type. I have this one which is more of a dress stick being only 73cm long. A sign of its lateness to me is the opposite end to the ball, which has a slight bevelled edge and the end has been dressed flat by a file. I know files have been in use for centuries but all the early short sticks that I have, not having contact with the ground have been carved or worn/rubbed at the end. To many collectors this lateness may cause some disinterest but one has to realise how much parts of Southern Africa were like the wild west. Traditional warriors still engaging in conflicts untill 1906. Like in this link, the only survivors two Americans and an Australian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangani_Patrol

It is fasinating how worldwide things like this, swords and knives seem to come in roughly the same set sizes. I suppose we are all humans.

Tim Simmons · 17th March 2009, 09:50 PM

Hello Lew, I asume you will be looking here. I just ebayed this staff/stick which I believe is quite possibly Fon or Benin, certainly West African and high status. The the fist image is a potent symbol in West Africa. I hope to post better pics in the next few days. I could be very much deluded

I was the only bidder

Lew · 17th March 2009, 10:14 PM

Nice stick Tim.

What I find strange is that the shaft seems to be bamboo never saw an African stick made from it but you never know.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 17th March 2009, 10:20 PM

magnify this pic, some kind of grain? The seller says carved step down stick?

colin henshaw · 3rd April 2009, 06:38 PM

Hi Tim

Here is one of mine, from the Solomon Islands, for comparison. I believe the serpent motif is part of their iconography.

Regards

Tim Simmons · 3rd April 2009, 06:43 PM

Very very nice Colin. Some more stuff on Tongan artists.

Tim Simmons · 10th April 2009, 07:41 PM

Lew I think you will look here. I have just taken another punt on this item. 34, 1/2 inches, tapering from 1, 1/4 inches to 7/8 of an inch. That would make the hand around 3 inches wide so it could well be used as a club. This was the only picture so it bit of a gamble. Apparently there is slight damage to the outside of the little finger. Which could indicate use as a weapon. I think it is clearly African. Like your machete it is a left hand, the other sticks in this thread are right hand.

Royston · 12th April 2009, 12:31 PM

Another African stick which is carved from one piece of horn. I am guessing that it is Oryx as it is quite straight.
It's a bit short for a walking stick at about 1 metre so it may have served another purpose.

Any suggestions as to the origin ?

Regards
Royston

Tim Simmons · 12th April 2009, 07:56 PM

Looks like you could fend off any nasty person with that point. Are you sure it is horn? not that I doubt you just that things can be hard to discern through a PC. The horn is solid? I believe antelope horns are hollow? solid horn would be far more rare. I am not an expert but to my mind this is East African like Milawi, Mozambique or Tanzania. The carving to the back of the head and other aspects of the face can be seen in carving from these areas today. Frequently seen in charity shops, car boot sales and new items at so called "CRAFT" markets.
Your piece does not strike me as tourist or "art market" work, however I do feel it is modern in the sence I feel sure it is post 1918 possibly quite a bit latter. The carrying of sticks as a social marker as well as a possible defensive weapon was comman in parts of East Africa untill quite recently and no doubt still is today in the most rural areas. Interestingly my new neighbour who I was talking to this very afternoon is from Guinea. I showed him some of my sticks. He went on to say that in his region traditionally the eldest son of a family would be marked by carring a stick. There is a good we site on prestige sticks in East Africa. I will try and find it again and this time bookmark it.

Tim Simmons · 12th April 2009, 09:15 PM

That old Zulu magic, shame about the nose and the ear are a bit flaky too.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=390042158896

Lew · 13th April 2009, 02:12 PM

Tim

I was looking at that one. A nice piece but again the price is rediculous

.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 15th April 2009, 09:41 PM

The fist stick that was a gamble, well it is total rubbish, trouist, and badly damaged. The Fiji one is still nice

.

28th February 2009, 04:47 AM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Zulu Walking Stick For Comment I found this the other day seems early 20th century to me? Attached Images

1st March 2009, 09:27 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Nice stick Lew. I would agree with Colin early 20th cent. It seems to be a fairly common type. I have this one which is more of a dress stick being only 73cm long. A sign of its lateness to me is the opposite end to the ball, which has a slight bevelled edge and the end has been dressed flat by a file. I know files have been in use for centuries but all the early short sticks that I have, not having contact with the ground have been carved or worn/rubbed at the end. To many collectors this lateness may cause some disinterest but one has to realise how much parts of Southern Africa were like the wild west. Traditional warriors still engaging in conflicts untill 1906. Like in this link, the only survivors two Americans and an Australian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangani_Patrol It is fasinating how worldwide things like this, swords and knives seem to come in roughly the same set sizes. I suppose we are all humans. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 1st March 2009 at 10:14 PM. Reason: spelling. spelling

17th March 2009, 09:50 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Hello Lew, I asume you will be looking here. I just ebayed this staff/stick which I believe is quite possibly Fon or Benin, certainly West African and high status. The the fist image is a potent symbol in West Africa. I hope to post better pics in the next few days. I could be very much deluded I was the only bidder Attached Images

17th March 2009, 10:20 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	magnify this pic, some kind of grain? The seller says carved step down stick? Attached Images

3rd April 2009, 06:38 PM	#7
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Hi Tim Here is one of mine, from the Solomon Islands, for comparison. I believe the serpent motif is part of their iconography. Regards Attached Images

28th February 2009, 01:03 PM	#2
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Yes, in my opinion early 20th century... Regards

17th March 2009, 10:14 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Nice stick Tim. What I find strange is that the shaft seems to be bamboo never saw an African stick made from it but you never know. Lew

3rd April 2009, 06:43 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Very very nice Colin. Some more stuff on Tongan artists. Attached Images

10th April 2009, 07:41 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Lew I think you will look here. I have just taken another punt on this item. 34, 1/2 inches, tapering from 1, 1/4 inches to 7/8 of an inch. That would make the hand around 3 inches wide so it could well be used as a club. This was the only picture so it bit of a gamble. Apparently there is slight damage to the outside of the little finger. Which could indicate use as a weapon. I think it is clearly African. Like your machete it is a left hand, the other sticks in this thread are right hand. Attached Images

12th April 2009, 12:31 PM	#10
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	Oryx walking stick ? Another African stick which is carved from one piece of horn. I am guessing that it is Oryx as it is quite straight. It's a bit short for a walking stick at about 1 metre so it may have served another purpose. Any suggestions as to the origin ? Regards Royston Attached Images

12th April 2009, 07:56 PM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Looks like you could fend off any nasty person with that point. Are you sure it is horn? not that I doubt you just that things can be hard to discern through a PC. The horn is solid? I believe antelope horns are hollow? solid horn would be far more rare. I am not an expert but to my mind this is East African like Milawi, Mozambique or Tanzania. The carving to the back of the head and other aspects of the face can be seen in carving from these areas today. Frequently seen in charity shops, car boot sales and new items at so called "CRAFT" markets. Your piece does not strike me as tourist or "art market" work, however I do feel it is modern in the sence I feel sure it is post 1918 possibly quite a bit latter. The carrying of sticks as a social marker as well as a possible defensive weapon was comman in parts of East Africa untill quite recently and no doubt still is today in the most rural areas. Interestingly my new neighbour who I was talking to this very afternoon is from Guinea. I showed him some of my sticks. He went on to say that in his region traditionally the eldest son of a family would be marked by carring a stick. There is a good we site on prestige sticks in East Africa. I will try and find it again and this time bookmark it.

12th April 2009, 09:15 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	That old Zulu magic, shame about the nose and the ear are a bit flaky too. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=390042158896

13th April 2009, 02:12 PM	#13
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Tim I was looking at that one. A nice piece but again the price is rediculous . Lew

15th April 2009, 09:41 PM	#14
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The fist stick that was a gamble, well it is total rubbish, trouist, and badly damaged. The Fiji one is still nice .