strange construction

corrado26 · 27th July 2020, 04:00 PM

Did you ever see such a wheellock construction?, Certainly it is not too old but quite interesting.

fernando · 27th July 2020, 08:01 PM

Different indeed, Udo; is it yours ?

GIO · 27th July 2020, 08:10 PM

Really interesting. Such lock can be charged by hand, so the key becomes not necessary. Very clever !

rickystl · 27th July 2020, 10:00 PM

Hi Corodo

Now that's a real curiosity. Never seen one like it. It would be really interesting to see the inside of the lock. Could not even guess how old. But yes, appears from a time not too long ago. Of course innovative "geeks" were around back then also.

Rick

Philip · 28th July 2020, 02:19 AM

You have what is called a "segment" lock, which employs the partial arc of a wheel, in rotating fashion, to generate sparks from the pyrites. As GIO notes, it eliminates the need to wind up a wheel with a spanner, and thus makes reloading faster. Considering that most wheellocks are designed to rotate less than a full revolution, a segment lock should be efficient enough as a spark-striker.

The pan-cover opening mechanism operates via an internal cam and pushrod system, actuated by the segment's spindle, as on snaphaunce locks.

Claude Blair writes an excellent intro to these in his article "Early Firearms" in the anthology Pollard's History of Firearms and illustrates an example. The system could possibly date back to the late 16th cent. and it seems that the Germans and Italians are butting heads as to who invented it. There are several examples in German collections cited by Moritz Thierbach in his Die geschichtliche Entwicklung der Handfeuerwaffen (1886). Gen. Agostino Gaibi credits one of his countrymen, Rafaello Verdiani (c1580-1630) as the inventor, with one signed and undated example in the Royal Armouries Museum (XII.1067). Mr Blair characterizes segment lock guns as "very rare".

Philip · 28th July 2020, 06:47 AM

Hi, Udo

Here are two pieces to compare your pistol to. Top one is the gun by Raffaelo Verdiani referenced in the above post, this image in Blackmore's Guns and Rifles of the World, (1965), plate 121. The author gives a date for the height of his career as being around 1619. Bottom one has barrel marked Elias Pedersen, Odense (Denmark), ca 1665,Tojhusmuseet, Copenhagen (B.435).

Both of these utilize a fully-developed wheellock dog. Looking at the dog on your lock, I don't see any tightening screw for the jaws. Or does it have some other arrangement, from the pic I can't understand how the pyrites are held.

Thanks for posting your piece. Even though it doesn't look very old, this is an unusual and interesting mechanical variation to see and discuss. At the very least, it makes you wonder who is this Mr Fritz who supposedly made it, and whether or not this is the only one.

Philip · 28th July 2020, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Now that's a real curiosity. Never seen one like it. It would be really interesting to see the inside of the lock.

Rick

Wouldn't you like to have your custom gunsmith make one of these so you have one to put on a gun to shoot? I bet these things are quite efficient. It's probably the bulkiness of the mechanism that prevented these things from becoming more popular. But I can see the advantage of cocking the system in a quick thumb motion, rather than fumbling with a wrench to wind up a wheel.

corrado26 · 28th July 2020, 12:12 PM

Thanks for all your information. No, the pistol is not mine so I cannot post further fotos. It is at the moment on offer at a German online auction.

27th July 2020, 04:00 PM	#1
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	strange construction Did you ever see such a wheellock construction?, Certainly it is not too old but quite interesting. Attached Images

27th July 2020, 08:01 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Bizarre ... Different indeed, Udo; is it yours ?

28th July 2020, 06:47 AM	#6
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	fotos of the real thing Hi, Udo Here are two pieces to compare your pistol to. Top one is the gun by Raffaelo Verdiani referenced in the above post, this image in Blackmore's Guns and Rifles of the World, (1965), plate 121. The author gives a date for the height of his career as being around 1619. Bottom one has barrel marked Elias Pedersen, Odense (Denmark), ca 1665,Tojhusmuseet, Copenhagen (B.435). Both of these utilize a fully-developed wheellock dog. Looking at the dog on your lock, I don't see any tightening screw for the jaws. Or does it have some other arrangement, from the pic I can't understand how the pyrites are held. Thanks for posting your piece. Even though it doesn't look very old, this is an unusual and interesting mechanical variation to see and discuss. At the very least, it makes you wonder who is this Mr Fritz who supposedly made it, and whether or not this is the only one. Attached Images

27th July 2020, 08:10 PM	#3
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 313	Really interesting. Such lock can be charged by hand, so the key becomes not necessary. Very clever !

27th July 2020, 10:00 PM	#4
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Corodo Now that's a real curiosity. Never seen one like it. It would be really interesting to see the inside of the lock. Could not even guess how old. But yes, appears from a time not too long ago. Of course innovative "geeks" were around back then also. Rick

28th July 2020, 02:19 AM	#5
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	You have what is called a "segment" lock, which employs the partial arc of a wheel, in rotating fashion, to generate sparks from the pyrites. As GIO notes, it eliminates the need to wind up a wheel with a spanner, and thus makes reloading faster. Considering that most wheellocks are designed to rotate less than a full revolution, a segment lock should be efficient enough as a spark-striker. The pan-cover opening mechanism operates via an internal cam and pushrod system, actuated by the segment's spindle, as on snaphaunce locks. Claude Blair writes an excellent intro to these in his article "Early Firearms" in the anthology Pollard's History of Firearms and illustrates an example. The system could possibly date back to the late 16th cent. and it seems that the Germans and Italians are butting heads as to who invented it. There are several examples in German collections cited by Moritz Thierbach in his Die geschichtliche Entwicklung der Handfeuerwaffen (1886). Gen. Agostino Gaibi credits one of his countrymen, Rafaello Verdiani (c1580-1630) as the inventor, with one signed and undated example in the Royal Armouries Museum (XII.1067). Mr Blair characterizes segment lock guns as "very rare".

28th July 2020, 12:12 PM	#8
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	Thanks for all your information. No, the pistol is not mine so I cannot post further fotos. It is at the moment on offer at a German online auction.