Arabic translation assistance on Sumatran keris

RSWORD · 20th October 2011, 11:12 PM

Here is an interesting Sumatran keris with a silver scabbard with inscription. The interesting part is I can make out a date of 1223 which, if accurate, would be early 19th century. My question is do we think this date was added at the time the piece was manufactured. Or do we think this is a later piece with an earlier date added. But if that is the case, why add an earlier date? The silver is nice quality. It has tarnished a nice bluish-black color and the wood has a nice patina and grain. Looking forward to thoughts on this one.

Atlantia · 20th October 2011, 11:27 PM

Hi Rick.

That's interesting, I agree that it's a date, written right to left.
I'd make that 1808.
The script looks odd as well.

The entire inscription looks contemporary with the silver sheet.

Be interesting to see what the Arabic speakers make of it.

AJ1356 · 21st October 2011, 04:58 AM

It has Arabic caracters but I think they might be Arabic hybrid, meaning Sumatran writing using Arabic hybrid letters. I see way too many dots where it makes me lean towards the above statement. the so called date is more like a number, if it is a date, that is an odd way of writing it. Interesting peice.

kai · 21st October 2011, 08:31 AM

Hello Rick,

That's an interesting one. This looks more like a northern Malay keris to me - a few more pics may help.

Despite the uncommon pamor motif (for keris Melayu), the blade doesn't appear to be of high quality - tough to estimate an age. The silverwork doesn't look like early 19th c. quality to me though.

Maybe the number is based on numerology rather than specifying a year. Also commemoration dates can be found on keris.

Regards,
Kai

RSWORD · 21st October 2011, 06:54 PM

Hopefully, some of our friends from the keris forum can have a go on this translation to see if we get any information from that. I agree, the blade is not of particularly high quality. The pamor is interesting but there are some forging issues and the blade is not particularly well finished. However, the scabbard is quite nice. The wood has a lovely grain and the silver, while the close up shots don't illustrate the quality very well, the silver is a quality silver, probably close to Sterling, and I find the workmanship comparable to much silver work you see in the 19th century. Maybe not royal workshop, but certainly, along the quality of silver work I have seen on a large number of 19th century work. Looking forward to more information.

tunggulametung · 22nd October 2011, 11:22 AM

Hello, this is the closest I can get, hope other members can supply more accurate translation. Thanks

20th October 2011, 11:12 PM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Arabic translation assistance on Sumatran keris Here is an interesting Sumatran keris with a silver scabbard with inscription. The interesting part is I can make out a date of 1223 which, if accurate, would be early 19th century. My question is do we think this date was added at the time the piece was manufactured. Or do we think this is a later piece with an earlier date added. But if that is the case, why add an earlier date? The silver is nice quality. It has tarnished a nice bluish-black color and the wood has a nice patina and grain. Looking forward to thoughts on this one. Attached Images

22nd October 2011, 11:22 AM	#6
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Hello, this is the closest I can get, hope other members can supply more accurate translation. Thanks Attached Images

20th October 2011, 11:27 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Rick. That's interesting, I agree that it's a date, written right to left. I'd make that 1808. The script looks odd as well. The entire inscription looks contemporary with the silver sheet. Be interesting to see what the Arabic speakers make of it.

21st October 2011, 04:58 AM	#3
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 314	It has Arabic caracters but I think they might be Arabic hybrid, meaning Sumatran writing using Arabic hybrid letters. I see way too many dots where it makes me lean towards the above statement. the so called date is more like a number, if it is a date, that is an odd way of writing it. Interesting peice.

21st October 2011, 08:31 AM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Rick, That's an interesting one. This looks more like a northern Malay keris to me - a few more pics may help. Despite the uncommon pamor motif (for keris Melayu), the blade doesn't appear to be of high quality - tough to estimate an age. The silverwork doesn't look like early 19th c. quality to me though. Maybe the number is based on numerology rather than specifying a year. Also commemoration dates can be found on keris. Regards, Kai

21st October 2011, 06:54 PM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	Hopefully, some of our friends from the keris forum can have a go on this translation to see if we get any information from that. I agree, the blade is not of particularly high quality. The pamor is interesting but there are some forging issues and the blade is not particularly well finished. However, the scabbard is quite nice. The wood has a lovely grain and the silver, while the close up shots don't illustrate the quality very well, the silver is a quality silver, probably close to Sterling, and I find the workmanship comparable to much silver work you see in the 19th century. Maybe not royal workshop, but certainly, along the quality of silver work I have seen on a large number of 19th century work. Looking forward to more information.