Need translation from Arabic

ariel · 14th September 2009, 11:48 PM

OK, folks, I just got this puppy.
Old, ancestral blade with ugly military handle.
As per my understanding and books of Yucel and Mohammed, this is a Mamluk-style sword, dated 1107H, ie 1695-1696 Gregorian . Mamluks were conquered by the Ottomans in 1517, thus: Mamluk-style. Typical decoration: some ornament at ricasso, then cartouche, then Mamluk "commas".
The blade has a little bit of superficial rust ( yet uncleaned, I am still drooling), and some areas seem to show Damascus structure, I think mechanical, but will know better when it is polished and etched. It has yelman, but very small , what is usually referred to as old kilij type.
There is a long inscription along the spine on the left side of the blade, short decorative one on the right side and cartouche.

Please, translate as much as you can!!!!
Thanks in advance!!!
Today is my birthday and this is my present to myself :-)

Dom · 15th September 2009, 03:26 AM

.

Tatyana Dianova · 15th September 2009, 09:21 AM

Happy birthday Ariel!
I wish you all the best - and to find the super Wootz on this blade!

Atlantia · 15th September 2009, 11:47 AM

Hi Ariel

Many happy returns mate. The sword is very nice! I think the blade is going to be a beauty! Nice to see ssuch a nice blade uncleaned but still so well preserved. Guess we know what you're going to be doing today?

Regards
Gene

Gavin Nugent · 15th September 2009, 11:52 AM

Happy Bday and congrats Ariel, I hope to see more about this sword in time.

Best.

Gav

ALEX · 15th September 2009, 12:20 PM

Ariel, what a nice present from someone special :-)
That is a very rare blade. I like the circular cartouche:-) the text on the ridge appears to be a mix of Persian and Arabic. Hopefully someone will be able to translate.
HAPPY B-DAY !!!

Dom · 17th September 2009, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Please, translate as much as you can!!!!

Hi Ariel
here our present for your birthday

just 2 comments;
- the sentence seems to be writting in Turkish, not in Arabic

- we suppose Turkish, coze the beginning of the sentence started by a Turkish title "Hadarat"

- HADARAT - no real translation, Turkish title
- SAHAH - belong to, or , owner
- WA - and
- RASOUL - Messenger, sometime Prophet, but with the name of God (Rasoul Allah)

sorry if it's not more than that

à +

Dom

ariel · 17th September 2009, 03:05 PM

Many, many thanks!!!!!

ariel · 10th October 2009, 10:34 PM

OK, I just etched it. needed to go to UNDILUTED ferric chloride solution from Radio Shack.
It is wootz, but I can see it only in certain small areas. The rest became (very nice) solid dark grey.
Question#1: why only certain areas? Why did it need such a strong solution? Does the etching solution become old ( mine is very old)? Will getting new stuff help?
Question #2: obviously, this is a remounted old blade. Some Turk needed a sword ( probably, WWI), and used an ancestral (?) blade.
Should I fit it with a new handle/crossguard? I have a full set for a Syrian ( bedawi) handle and a Persian/Syrian type iron crossguard, likely, what it had at least in it's second incarnation ( before the military monstrosity).

ALEX · 11th October 2009, 11:17 AM

Ariel,
It is common, especially on older blades with low contrast sham wootz, to see "patches" of wootz. Many reasons - wear, corrosion, re-polishing, heat exposure/experiments/vandalism, original under/over-development, etc. I think it's later, and the heat was not properly controlled when the blade was made, hence wootz was not developed on entire surface. This would also explain the need of strong etchant and the resultant mix of grey-coloured and low-contrast wootz segments.
The FeCl solution will expire, so it's better to discard it after use, and use new solution.
I would re-mount with Ottoman fittings as first choice, and Persian/Syrian as a second.
This is very,very nice blade, Ariel, and especially being wootz!

15th September 2009, 11:52 AM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Happy Bday Happy Bday and congrats Ariel, I hope to see more about this sword in time. Best. Gav

10th October 2009, 10:34 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	OK, I just etched it. needed to go to UNDILUTED ferric chloride solution from Radio Shack. It is wootz, but I can see it only in certain small areas. The rest became (very nice) solid dark grey. Question#1: why only certain areas? Why did it need such a strong solution? Does the etching solution become old ( mine is very old)? Will getting new stuff help? Question #2: obviously, this is a remounted old blade. Some Turk needed a sword ( probably, WWI), and used an ancestral (?) blade. Should I fit it with a new handle/crossguard? I have a full set for a Syrian ( bedawi) handle and a Persian/Syrian type iron crossguard, likely, what it had at least in it's second incarnation ( before the military monstrosity). Attached Images

11th October 2009, 11:17 AM	#10
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Ariel, It is common, especially on older blades with low contrast sham wootz, to see "patches" of wootz. Many reasons - wear, corrosion, re-polishing, heat exposure/experiments/vandalism, original under/over-development, etc. I think it's later, and the heat was not properly controlled when the blade was made, hence wootz was not developed on entire surface. This would also explain the need of strong etchant and the resultant mix of grey-coloured and low-contrast wootz segments. The FeCl solution will expire, so it's better to discard it after use, and use new solution. I would re-mount with Ottoman fittings as first choice, and Persian/Syrian as a second. This is very,very nice blade, Ariel, and especially being wootz! Last edited by ALEX; 11th October 2009 at 11:33 AM.

14th September 2009, 11:48 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Mamluk Kilij: Need translation from Arabic OK, folks, I just got this puppy. Old, ancestral blade with ugly military handle. As per my understanding and books of Yucel and Mohammed, this is a Mamluk-style sword, dated 1107H, ie 1695-1696 Gregorian . Mamluks were conquered by the Ottomans in 1517, thus: Mamluk-style. Typical decoration: some ornament at ricasso, then cartouche, then Mamluk "commas". The blade has a little bit of superficial rust ( yet uncleaned, I am still drooling), and some areas seem to show Damascus structure, I think mechanical, but will know better when it is polished and etched. It has yelman, but very small , what is usually referred to as old kilij type. There is a long inscription along the spine on the left side of the blade, short decorative one on the right side and cartouche. Please, translate as much as you can!!!! Thanks in advance!!! Today is my birthday and this is my present to myself :-) Attached Images Last edited by ariel; 15th September 2009 at 11:44 AM. Reason: error

15th September 2009, 03:26 AM	#2
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	. Attached Images

15th September 2009, 09:21 AM	#3
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 701	Happy birthday Ariel! I wish you all the best - and to find the super Wootz on this blade!

15th September 2009, 11:47 AM	#4
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Ariel Many happy returns mate. The sword is very nice! I think the blade is going to be a beauty! Nice to see ssuch a nice blade uncleaned but still so well preserved. Guess we know what you're going to be doing today? Regards Gene

15th September 2009, 12:20 PM	#6
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Ariel, what a nice present from someone special :-) That is a very rare blade. I like the circular cartouche:-) the text on the ridge appears to be a mix of Persian and Arabic. Hopefully someone will be able to translate. HAPPY B-DAY !!!

17th September 2009, 03:05 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Many, many thanks!!!!!