Left Hand Dagger?

corrado26 · 29th September 2021, 07:24 PM

Left Hand Dagger? That's the question. Got it today and like it but would like to know what others think about its age and origin. Total length 357 mm, length of blade 230 mm. Interesting is the recess shortly before the tip of the blade and what was its purpose.

fernando · 29th September 2021, 08:32 PM

Interesting piece. Whether it is a left hand dagger, the ring says yes. Is the blade tip 'bulky' all round, like in hand weapons made to perforate ... mail or armour ?
We know the primary purpose of the left hand dagger being that of parrying the adversary blows, it also serves as a stabbing weapon as a resource in a sword fight.
The guard rather atypical and so is the grip. I wonder whether some of our members are familiar with this dagger shape.

corrado26 · 30th September 2021, 09:37 AM

Some additional fotos of the dagger's tip of both sides and fotos which demonstrate that the dagger is very well balanced.

fernando · 30th September 2021, 12:01 PM

Interesting; the recess occurs in the edge sides but not on the ridges.

Jim McDougall · 1st October 2021, 06:40 AM

The grip shape is most unusual as noted. These left hand daggers came in around mid 16th c. and fell into disuse for fencing soon after the 17th c. according to Egerton Castle (1885, p.246). However in its latter existence it was "...of a very reduced type, approximating that of a stiletto and its guard consisting merely of straight quillons with a small ring".

However in Spain the hand covered guard type known as main gauche' came into use for some time later.

It seems most of these had fluted cylindrical grips, a lot of those German with the ringed guard like this, but the styling on this hilt is most unusual. The blade with what seems almost like an armor piercing point is as well. The ring indicates this was a fencing dagger, as a guard to protect knuckles if an errant blade slipped in a parry.

That 'star' ,mark on the guard it seems I have seen somewhere, but the only mark like it in a stand alone situation is from a non illustrated knife in "Knives and Scabbards", (Cowgill, de Neergaard, Griffiths, 1987, #174) stating it is early 15th c. Naturally this is a bit early for this dagger, but thought it worthy of mention.....the region unfortunately not stated but mostly from British excavations.

corrado26 · 1st October 2021, 08:19 AM

Thanks a lot for your help. Maybe that the mention of Spain as probable origin hits the nail: I got it from a Spanish collector.

30th September 2021, 09:37 AM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	Some additional fotos of the dagger's tip of both sides and fotos which demonstrate that the dagger is very well balanced. Attached Images Last edited by corrado26; 30th September 2021 at 12:47 PM.

29th September 2021, 07:24 PM	#1
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	Left Hand Dagger? Left Hand Dagger? That's the question. Got it today and like it but would like to know what others think about its age and origin. Total length 357 mm, length of blade 230 mm. Interesting is the recess shortly before the tip of the blade and what was its purpose. Attached Images

29th September 2021, 08:32 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Interesting piece. Whether it is a left hand dagger, the ring says yes. Is the blade tip 'bulky' all round, like in hand weapons made to perforate ... mail or armour ? We know the primary purpose of the left hand dagger being that of parrying the adversary blows, it also serves as a stabbing weapon as a resource in a sword fight. The guard rather atypical and so is the grip. I wonder whether some of our members are familiar with this dagger shape.

30th September 2021, 12:01 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Interesting; the recess occurs in the edge sides but not on the ridges.

1st October 2021, 06:40 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	The grip shape is most unusual as noted. These left hand daggers came in around mid 16th c. and fell into disuse for fencing soon after the 17th c. according to Egerton Castle (1885, p.246). However in its latter existence it was "...of a very reduced type, approximating that of a stiletto and its guard consisting merely of straight quillons with a small ring". However in Spain the hand covered guard type known as main gauche' came into use for some time later. It seems most of these had fluted cylindrical grips, a lot of those German with the ringed guard like this, but the styling on this hilt is most unusual. The blade with what seems almost like an armor piercing point is as well. The ring indicates this was a fencing dagger, as a guard to protect knuckles if an errant blade slipped in a parry. That 'star' ,mark on the guard it seems I have seen somewhere, but the only mark like it in a stand alone situation is from a non illustrated knife in "Knives and Scabbards", (Cowgill, de Neergaard, Griffiths, 1987, #174) stating it is early 15th c. Naturally this is a bit early for this dagger, but thought it worthy of mention.....the region unfortunately not stated but mostly from British excavations.

1st October 2021, 08:19 AM	#6
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,207	Thanks a lot for your help. Maybe that the mention of Spain as probable origin hits the nail: I got it from a Spanish collector.