The Scythe as a weapon.

[Peter Hudson]

I recently attended a most interesting course on scythe use as a tool for cutting the grass... and the group then commenced work in tidying up one of the ancient church yards of Saint Cuthbert over in Corsenside Northumberland ...
A number of things struck me on this item since it would seem to be weapon related as a lot of farm utensils are as well as its interesting old fashioned method of sharpening which I think is peculiar to the Scythe only but may indicate an ancient sword blade sharpening system? A technique giving the blade an extremely sharp cutting edge reminicent to the hollow blade edge on swords we hear of on some European weapons. However in relation to its ancient history as a farm tool I have placed this on Ethnographic ..but moderators may see this as a moveable feast...

The whats in a word connundrum crops up as it would be easy to suggest that Scythe comes from Scythia although the word root appears to be Old English ...more on that later...

I looked at Scythes on Library and there are a few references there but mainly of the shorter curved or hooked item...

I place the fine picture below to see member interest and will continue the detective work soon.

This picture is noted as of Polish Scythemen from 1863.

[Peter Hudson]

and from Wikepedia for the next bit... Scythes may date back as far as c. 5000 BC; they seem to have been used since Cucuteni–Trypillia settlements, becoming widespread with agricultural developments.[citation needed] Initially used mostly for mowing hay, it had replaced the sickle for reaping crops by the 16th century, as the scythe was better ergonomically and consequently more efficient.[citation needed] In about 1800 the grain cradle was sometimes added to the standard scythe when mowing grain; the cradle was an addition of light wooden fingers above the scythe blade which kept the grain stems aligned and the heads together to make the collection and threshing easier. In the developed world, the scythe has been largely replaced by the motorised lawn mower and combine harvester. However, the scythe remained in common use for many years after the introduction of machines because a side-mounted finger-bar mower – whether horse- or tractor-drawn – could not mow in front of itself, and scythes were still needed to open up a meadow by clearing the first swathe to give the mechanical mower room to start.[citation needed]

The Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities of Sir William Smith argues that the scythe, known in Latin as the falx foenaria as opposed to the sickle, the falx messoria, was used by the ancient Romans.[citation needed] According to ancient Greek mythology, Gaia – the Greek goddess and mother of the Titans – gave a sickle made of the strongest metal to her youngest son Kronos, who is also the youngest of the Titans and god of the harvest, to seek vengeance against her husband Ouranos for torturing their eldest sons. The Grim Reaper is often depicted carrying or wielding a scythe. According to Jack Herer and Flesh of The Gods (Emboden, W. A. Jr., Praeger Press, New York, 1974), the ancient Scythians grew hemp and harvested it with a hand reaper that would be considered a scythe.[citation needed]

[Peter Hudson]

AND...Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythe_sword
QUOTE; Scythe sword
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The scythe sword of Thomas Müntzer and a representation of the "summer" half of its runic calendar.
The scythe sword (Sensenschwert) was a type of single-edged sword of the German Renaissance, related to the Dussack. It consisted of the blade of a scythe to which a sword hilt was attached. Like the falx or falcata of antiquity, it was thus a curved sword with the cutting edge on the inside (as opposed to the scimitar or sabre type with the edge on the outside).

The only known surviving example of a true scythe sword (its blade being made from an actual scythe), is that of Thomas Müntzer (1489–1525), kept in the Historical Museum, Dresden. This sword has a representation of a runic calendar incised on the blade. Demmin (1893) notes the existence of other sword blades of the early 16th century bearing runic calendars in Berlin, Vienna, Paris, Munich, Graz and Luxembourg. SEE below ....

It is possible that “scythe sword” may refer to the Thracian romphaia (Greek: ῥομφαία), most commonly a long curved blade with its[1] cutting edge on the concave or inside edge with a piercing point, attached to a pole (wood handle) that's shorter than the blade.

The Thracian romphaia is often compared to a Dacian falx, a longer version of a romphaia.

The romphaia was a close-combat bladed weapon used by the Thracians as early as 350-400 BC.

The two-handed falx is clearly related to the Thracian rhomphaia. It is a derivative of both the sword and the spear, used by the Dacians.

Both the romphaia and dax weapons were made in one hand and two handed versions. Most surviving examples suggest the smaller shorter “one hand” type actually would have been “hand and a half”, where the second hand was used more as a lever to make strokes, thrusts, recoveries and angle of attack changes more rapid and fluid.

So, “scythe sword” could refer to a romphaia, or dax possibly.

[Peter Hudson]

For an excellent video on Peening and Sharpening a Scythe blade please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaWcNaceWWY

[Peter Hudson]

Khopesh.

This bronze khopesh, or sickle-sword, was found near Jerusalem and dates to the Late Bronze Age, circa 1500 B.C. The sword is sharpened on the outer edge of the curved portion of the blade. The khopesh originated in Egypt and was one of the signature weapons of Egyptian troops during the Middle and New Kingdom periods.

[Peter Hudson]

Dacian Falx.

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Peter Hudson

For an excellent video on Peening and Sharpening a Scythe blade please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaWcNaceWWY

Very, very interesting. I wish I had this information 30 years ago. A weapon would need a very soft temper for this technique. From what the gentleman said in the video the technique also seemed to work harden the edge a bit. For cloth armor it would create a very effective cutting edge. It seems to be a very frugal practice in that it does not remove very much metal for the initial sharpening.

Thanks for the thread.

[Teisani]

If you are interested in the falx, you can try Borangic Cătălin's work. It's in Romanian, but the pictures of relics are nice a reference. Here are a few of his works, you can find more, just search "falx Borangic Cătălin".

http://cclbsebes.ro/docs/sebus/08_Borangic.pdf

https://www.academia.edu/1978947/Bor..._reconstituire

https://www.slideshare.net/dadamamus...emvs-i-12-2006

https://www.laurlucus.ro/bibliotheca...-reconstituire

https://archive.org/details/borangic...ge/n1/mode/2up

And one source for the sica (in Russian): https://proviaspublishing.com/wp-con...0%B8%D1%8F.pdf

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by Interested Party

Very, very interesting. I wish I had this information 30 years ago. A weapon would need a very soft temper for this technique. From what the gentleman said in the video the technique also seemed to work harden the edge a bit. For cloth armor it would create a very effective cutting edge. It seems to be a very frugal practice in that it does not remove very much metal for the initial sharpening.

Thanks for the thread.

Thank you for your post...Indeed I was completely amazed by these little gadgets making up the set of wheel jigs and the very basic technique that puts a razor edge on Scythes. This video went even further by using a aluminium rod to finally remove any burrs on the edge. This is a simple piece of easy to operate engineering that puts a superb edge on a Scythe ... and is really used on only one face of the blade. I would describe the edge as a hammered and pushed hollow edge.

My main interest in seeing this technique is related to Swords of Shotley Bridge and the conundrum of Hollow Blade production through a supposed 17th C tool brought there by a Swedish engineer/Industrial Spy... Reinhold Angerstein... but which largely seemed to be a fictional item until it was rediscovered by one of our Forum members and who wrote the book on Shotley Bridge Swords...SEE for example Swords of Shotley Bridge at Library by ...His Name on Forum is urbanspaceman.

[thinreadline]

elslewhere I have posted what I believe to be a Chinese polearm which cane out of a large castle like manor house in North Wales along with this scythe type polearm

[Peter Hudson]

It apppears that many battles included scythes converted to weapons and the example you show may be one of these. My reference at #26 above gives dozens of examples all over Europe and in England plus the museums in which examples may still be seen.

Thanks for adding this example.



The Painting below illustrates Russian Guns being over run by charging Polish soldiers many weilding Scythe weapons. .

[werecow]

This thread and particularly the scythe sword above reminds me of this bizarre little sword I picked up a few years ago from a Dutch vendor.

It's about 74cm long out of the scabbard. POB about 9.5cm from the guard.
The blade is not sharpened, or possibly blunted (has about a .5mm edge; no patina and some file marks on the edge that are hard to capture on camera).
I can't comment as to the quality of the steel but it has significant distal taper, from 8mm at the guard to about 3mm at the end of the fuller. It has a few seemingly random letters stamped into it QHUOS and below it W1I and then an upside down 7.
The guard seems to be nickel plated. I think the grip wrapping and washer are some sort of imitation sharkskin and they're not very substantial. The pommel has an obvious nut and bolt construction, but I haven't tried opening it up for fear of damaging something as I am a novice.
The scabbard is rather thin metal and seems to have been blued. The rings are on the inside of the curve, and it has a working locking mechanism that fits the button/clip on the guard.

At first I thought it might be a replacement blade on an old D-guard, but the scabbard is clearly made for it.

I'd love your opinion on it... Since it's a sickle sword and I got it from an area near Belgium, maybe central African (Congo, Ethiopia)? European late 19th/early 20th century april fool's joke? Modern day smithing experiment?

[Peter Hudson]

Thank you for your pictures and questions. The short answer is I dont know however I did have a good look for similar styles but didnt have any luck except a Japanese Type 32 Cavalry sabre. with a securing device similar to what is seen on your sword. Lets hope a member can narrow this down a bit.. Regards Peter Hudson.

[Teisani]

National History Museum Bucharest.
Sica discovered at Orodel, Dolj county, Romania.
Falx discovered at Sarmizegetusa Romania.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by werecow

The rings are on the inside of the curve ... European late 19th/early 20th century april fool's joke? Modern day smithing experiment?

Have you tried hanging the scabbard (with the sword) by its suspension rings ? does it stay balanced or the weight of knuckle guard tends to twist it ?

[werecow]

Originally Posted by fernando

Have you tried hanging the scabbard (with the sword) by its suspension rings ? does it stay balanced or the weight of knuckle guard tends to twist it ?

It definitely wants to twist.

[Norman McCormick]

Not relevant.

[Norman McCormick]

Not relevant.

[Norman McCormick]

Not relevant.

[Peter Hudson]

Ah yes .The German Fektbok illuatrations.
These publications were aimed at the aristocratic members of the various fight schools as can be seen by the portrayal of men dressed in the latest fashions of the day. The participants shown are not the peasant members of European society...

I therefor ruled them out of the equation early on since this is not how Scythes were used in war. Imagine an opponent with a spear or sword opposing...

The whole idea behind war scythes was that they were available and cheap to use and training took a few minutes. The War Scythes were designed for the masses. It was a spearing jabbing slashing chopping weapon...

No one in their right mind would go into a battle armed with the scythe shown in this way nor would they be dressed like princes at court...

The blades were taken off and refitted reforged/ and reinforced where required and fitted for their new role as Pole arms. New straight longer wooden poles were required... thus this agricultural tool went to war.

[Peter Hudson]

From Origins of a New Regiment by Allan Mallinson Page 5. I Quote" It was all over in less than 10 minutes; Colonel Gardiner (CO of The 13th Dragoons) was killed trying to rally his and other troops; A highlander cut him down from his horse with a Scythe fastened to a pole and as he fell another highlander delivered a mortal blow to the head with a battle axe".Unquote.

Regards Peter Hudson.