European and Military Swords

Jim McDougall · 20th September 2008, 02:50 AM

The new forum is runnin' 'great guns' !!!! Its great to see so much discussion on the great firearms of history, especially those of such antiquity that have been shared here. As I have noted, I know that my knowledge of antique and historical firearms can best be classified as a cursory working knowledge

so its great to see these posted and outstanding historic detail added.

The scope of the forum not only includes these as well as the esoterica of armour and range of all weapons, but the area that seems lacking so far are the classic European edged weapons, including military and civilian forms.

I know you guys out there have some outstanding examples, and I'd like to see them posted and discussed here in hopes we can put together some informational threads. I'd really like to see some of the well known forms brought in, for example...the SCHIAVONA.

These beautiful basket hilt swords have some fascinating and colorful history, and it would be great to examples posted and talk about the history and development of the form. I know these have been well discussed elsewhere, but bringing in the historic data with actual examples really adds dimension.
I'd like to see examples marked with the Council of Ten, and learn more on that often secretive organization.

C'mon guys.....lets add some swords to the fantastic spectrum of arms and armour being brought in here.

All the best,
Jim

chevalier · 20th September 2008, 05:03 AM

ive been thinking of obtaining a del tin schiavona since the originals run in the 10's of thousands and are for all intents and purposes out of my reach at this point.

Jim McDougall · 20th September 2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevalier

ive been thinking of obtaining a del tin schiavona since the originals run in the 10's of thousands and are for all intents and purposes out of my reach at this point.

Actually original schiavona's are not unbelievably rare, nor do they command those kinds of prices, at least in what I've seen over the years. While the reproduction examples are nicely done, and good representations, what we hope to accomplish here is studying and identifying the original swords.
As we have seen, there are many extremely rare and original early firearms in private collections, and I am hoping that original early swords are also available to be shared and discussed here.

Valjhun · 11th November 2008, 07:33 AM

Schiavonas are getting very difficult to buy. Here is my example I've bought recently... Not so sound and decorated as it should be, but still a piece of history...

fernando · 11th November 2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

... Not so sound and decorated as it should be, but still a piece of history...

Never mind that, Valjhun ... it's a beatiful warrior; that's what matters

.
It's got a mark and everything; what else can one hope for ?

Fernando

celtan · 11th November 2008, 03:47 PM

Since we are not quoting values for any particular sword. What are the average street prices for an original schiavonna? I have alway wanted to get one of these bat-head pommeled beauties.

I'd just like to know what to expect...

Regards

Manuel

st

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Never mind that, Valjhun ... it's a beatiful warrior; that's what matters

.
It's got a mark and everything; what else can one hope for ?

Fernando

Jim McDougall · 12th November 2008, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Never mind that, Valjhun ... it's a beatiful warrior; that's what matters

.
It's got a mark and everything; what else can one hope for ?

Fernando

Well said Fernando!!! A beautiful warrior it is, and these are truly hard to find....real ones that is, like this one.
Valjhun, a sword such as this is never an investment, but a piece of history, and deserving being preserved. I always felt like I had 'saved' a worthy old warrior from the dealers with grinding wheels and steel wool, and couldn't wait to hear the stories it would tell me .
This is a good sound example of a true schiavona, probably mid to late 18th century. Wish I could make out the marking, but it seems unusual that it is on the guard, and I think that might be key to some identification.

Thank you for posting it this great example.

All the best,
Jim

Dmitry · 18th July 2010, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

Schiavonas are getting very difficult to buy. Here is my example I've bought recently... Not so sound and decorated as it should be, but still a piece of history...

I recognize my photos. I sold this sword, but I don't know whether it was you who bought it from me, or it was re-sold after...

Dmitry · 19th July 2010, 01:50 AM

Here's my schiavona. Note the 'cockroach' or 'ant' marks on the blade, which were discussed in another thread. After browsing my [scant] sources on the subject, I would tentatively date this one to some time in the 1600s.
It was acquired by me together with the one that Valjhun is now so proud to own.
While they were in use up to the end of the 18th c., Valjhun's and mine appear a bit earlier.
The later hilts show more rows of "windows" in the lattice baskets, although dating them based on this characteristic alone may be false.
The last two photos are from Robert Elgood's THE ARMS OF GREECE AND HER BALKAN NEIGHBORS IN THE OTTOMAN PERIOD, and show two schiavonas from the late 1700s. Note more rows of 'windows' on the guard.

20th September 2008, 02:50 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,940	Schiavona The new forum is runnin' 'great guns' !!!! Its great to see so much discussion on the great firearms of history, especially those of such antiquity that have been shared here. As I have noted, I know that my knowledge of antique and historical firearms can best be classified as a cursory working knowledge so its great to see these posted and outstanding historic detail added. The scope of the forum not only includes these as well as the esoterica of armour and range of all weapons, but the area that seems lacking so far are the classic European edged weapons, including military and civilian forms. I know you guys out there have some outstanding examples, and I'd like to see them posted and discussed here in hopes we can put together some informational threads. I'd really like to see some of the well known forms brought in, for example...the SCHIAVONA. These beautiful basket hilt swords have some fascinating and colorful history, and it would be great to examples posted and talk about the history and development of the form. I know these have been well discussed elsewhere, but bringing in the historic data with actual examples really adds dimension. I'd like to see examples marked with the Council of Ten, and learn more on that often secretive organization. C'mon guys.....lets add some swords to the fantastic spectrum of arms and armour being brought in here. All the best, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 12th November 2008 at 03:30 AM. Reason: Focus title on schiavona

11th November 2008, 07:33 AM	#4
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Schiavonas are getting very difficult to buy. Here is my example I've bought recently... Not so sound and decorated as it should be, but still a piece of history... Attached Images

19th July 2010, 01:50 AM	#9
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Here's my schiavona. Note the 'cockroach' or 'ant' marks on the blade, which were discussed in another thread. After browsing my [scant] sources on the subject, I would tentatively date this one to some time in the 1600s. It was acquired by me together with the one that Valjhun is now so proud to own. While they were in use up to the end of the 18th c., Valjhun's and mine appear a bit earlier. The later hilts show more rows of "windows" in the lattice baskets, although dating them based on this characteristic alone may be false. The last two photos are from Robert Elgood's THE ARMS OF GREECE AND HER BALKAN NEIGHBORS IN THE OTTOMAN PERIOD, and show two schiavonas from the late 1700s. Note more rows of 'windows' on the guard. Attached Images

20th September 2008, 05:03 AM	#2
chevalier Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 119	ive been thinking of obtaining a del tin schiavona since the originals run in the 10's of thousands and are for all intents and purposes out of my reach at this point.