A silver hilted small sword for comments.

fernando · 9th November 2021, 10:11 PM

Not only the hilt but also the scabbard with silver mounts. It looks like some of the motivs in the hilt depict zoomorfic figures. Pity that the scabbard was broken. I realized that gluing the two parts wouldn't work so, i had the local silver smith to fix it with a silver band.
I am so far relying on the assumption that, the guard having the double headed eagle, should be the coat of arms of the Habsburgs. Could this be a fact ? And its age; could the blade be earlier than the hilt ? Why would it be full of those 'concavities' ? Would this be a (usual) fashion of a determined blade smith ... German ?
I would so much appreciate your thoughts on this one, Gentlemen !

.

mariusgmioc · 9th November 2021, 11:06 PM

To my novice eyes the style appears Italian, Florentine with a touch of Negroli look...

And the double eagle could equally be Russian imperial.

Quite a lovely puzzle you have!

corrado26 · 10th November 2021, 08:31 AM

These two fotos show that this actually could not be a Russian eagle: The Russian eagle holds an orb and a sceptre and the heads of the eagle are mostly crowned.

Radboud · 10th November 2021, 09:00 AM

What a beautiful smallsword, congratulations!

mariusgmioc · 10th November 2021, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

These two fotos show that this actually could not be a Russian eagle: The Russian eagle holds an orb and a sceptre and the heads of the eagle are mostly crowned.

Well, the Austrian imperial eagle also holds an orb in its left talons and the heads of the eagle are also mostly crowned (see photo below). So, in my opinion this is more of an artistic representation than an heraldic accurate one.

Therefore, I believe it can be any of the two imperial eagles, or more likely, none of them.

fernando · 10th November 2021, 01:26 PM

Thank you Gentlemen for your impressions.
It appears that the double headed eagle holding the scepter and orb is the most seen and used. This one, on the contrary, has the eagle holding two swords. This could be artist's imagination but, why would he care to design the two swords so different from each other, both the cross guard and the blade profile; customer's demand, like the crest of some house family ? It is also noticeable that the crown on the eagles head looks a bit atypical ( a papal tiara ?); not to speak that this 'crest' is placed on the guard bottom and not on the top ... but this could be due to a better suitable place.
The problem is that, within such riddle, i am unable to guess where and when this sword comes from. Plus the reason for the unusual 'work' of the blade; one which i wonder whether it is older than the hilt; a family heirloom ?

.

Jim McDougall · 11th November 2021, 01:02 AM

Guys, all excellent interpretations and suggestions, and I hope I may add mine after going through "Catalog of European Court and Hunting Swords" (Bashford Dean, 1928).

With the artistic range of these kinds of pretty exclusive sword hilts, it would be pretty much impossible to find an exact match to this one. The double headed eagle in the motif is tempting yet misleading. If we attempt to place it specifically in accord with the known heraldic arms of Russia, and Austria as noted, as it is not exact in its form with exceptions in its elements it is speculative only.

The features in the motif are very unique, and unlike most themes on other European court and dress swords. In the reference (Dean, pl.XXXIX,#50) there is a N.European (German) example which has similar baroque styling in the shell guard rather than the standard bilobate type, has a 'boat shell' like form which seems rather unusual in these hilts.
This one dates c. 1780.

In another example (Dean, pl.LIII, #70) there is a French example again elaborate baroque styling and the pas'd'ane is more 'squared' with similar type ribbing in these structural elements. This example from c. 1770 has associations with diplomatic circumstances and a secretary of state of Russia.
The period of this example in those may extend into early 19th c.

I would suggest that this example might fall into this type of category and these influences may have been added into the design. Possibly the deviation in the eagle might be simply artistic license? The royal connections in most of these countries and diplomatic channels seem to be a good explanation for hybridization and influenced styling. In any case. likely third quarter 18th c.
Possibly heraldic sources might offer more specific look at this unusual eagle design.
Oddly, there does appear to be use of the 'Byzantine' double head eagle in Masonic regalia, so this might be a variation of those.
Usually there is one sword held horizontally.

The hexagonal blade seems unusual as well, and it seems the 'concavities' feature with these ellipses in linear grouping is something I have seen on some European blades but in a floral type configuration.

9th November 2021, 10:11 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A silver hilted small sword for comments. Not only the hilt but also the scabbard with silver mounts. It looks like some of the motivs in the hilt depict zoomorfic figures. Pity that the scabbard was broken. I realized that gluing the two parts wouldn't work so, i had the local silver smith to fix it with a silver band. I am so far relying on the assumption that, the guard having the double headed eagle, should be the coat of arms of the Habsburgs. Could this be a fact ? And its age; could the blade be earlier than the hilt ? Why would it be full of those 'concavities' ? Would this be a (usual) fashion of a determined blade smith ... German ? I would so much appreciate your thoughts on this one, Gentlemen ! . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 9th November 2021 at 10:24 PM.

10th November 2021, 08:31 AM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	These two fotos show that this actually could not be a Russian eagle: The Russian eagle holds an orb and a sceptre and the heads of the eagle are mostly crowned. Attached Images

10th November 2021, 01:26 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you Gentlemen for your impressions. It appears that the double headed eagle holding the scepter and orb is the most seen and used. This one, on the contrary, has the eagle holding two swords. This could be artist's imagination but, why would he care to design the two swords so different from each other, both the cross guard and the blade profile; customer's demand, like the crest of some house family ? It is also noticeable that the crown on the eagles head looks a bit atypical ( a papal tiara ?); not to speak that this 'crest' is placed on the guard bottom and not on the top ... but this could be due to a better suitable place. The problem is that, within such riddle, i am unable to guess where and when this sword comes from. Plus the reason for the unusual 'work' of the blade; one which i wonder whether it is older than the hilt; a family heirloom ? . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 10th November 2021 at 03:55 PM.

9th November 2021, 11:06 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	To my novice eyes the style appears Italian, Florentine with a touch of Negroli look... And the double eagle could equally be Russian imperial. Quite a lovely puzzle you have!

10th November 2021, 09:00 AM	#4
Radboud Member Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 261	What a beautiful smallsword, congratulations!

11th November 2021, 01:02 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Guys, all excellent interpretations and suggestions, and I hope I may add mine after going through "Catalog of European Court and Hunting Swords" (Bashford Dean, 1928). With the artistic range of these kinds of pretty exclusive sword hilts, it would be pretty much impossible to find an exact match to this one. The double headed eagle in the motif is tempting yet misleading. If we attempt to place it specifically in accord with the known heraldic arms of Russia, and Austria as noted, as it is not exact in its form with exceptions in its elements it is speculative only. The features in the motif are very unique, and unlike most themes on other European court and dress swords. In the reference (Dean, pl.XXXIX,#50) there is a N.European (German) example which has similar baroque styling in the shell guard rather than the standard bilobate type, has a 'boat shell' like form which seems rather unusual in these hilts. This one dates c. 1780. In another example (Dean, pl.LIII, #70) there is a French example again elaborate baroque styling and the pas'd'ane is more 'squared' with similar type ribbing in these structural elements. This example from c. 1770 has associations with diplomatic circumstances and a secretary of state of Russia. The period of this example in those may extend into early 19th c. I would suggest that this example might fall into this type of category and these influences may have been added into the design. Possibly the deviation in the eagle might be simply artistic license? The royal connections in most of these countries and diplomatic channels seem to be a good explanation for hybridization and influenced styling. In any case. likely third quarter 18th c. Possibly heraldic sources might offer more specific look at this unusual eagle design. Oddly, there does appear to be use of the 'Byzantine' double head eagle in Masonic regalia, so this might be a variation of those. Usually there is one sword held horizontally. The hexagonal blade seems unusual as well, and it seems the 'concavities' feature with these ellipses in linear grouping is something I have seen on some European blades but in a floral type configuration. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 11th November 2021 at 05:46 AM.