Opinion requested

Sajen · 26th June 2011, 04:01 PM

I have bought some time ago this old Bugis blade with 7 luk. Since I think this blade is worth to get a "house" I looked around what I have. I am unsure if the sheath and hilt is fittingly. Here first the pictures from the blade.

Sajen · 26th June 2011, 04:15 PM

And here is the sheath and hilt which I have already long. There is a blade inside but this one is completly worn out and have cheaply carved refund gonjo.
The sarung is in IMHO an old one and worked from thick silver sheet over wood.
It will need some work but I am sure that it will be possible to get a nearly perfect fit.

What do you think, is it adequate?

Thank you very much for your opinion,

Detlef

BluErf · 26th June 2011, 04:37 PM

Hi Sajen,

From the sheath and blade, looks like a Sumatran Bugis keris.

I've always doubted the age of the full silver sheath Bugis kerises. I thought they were a Javanese manufacture.

What you need is a sheath like this:

BluErf · 26th June 2011, 04:38 PM

Sorry, forgot to mention the photo was from Liongate. Couldn't find another photo of a Bugis keris from the same region.

Sajen · 26th June 2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

Hi Sajen,

From the sheath and blade, looks like a Sumatran Bugis keris.

I've always doubted the age of the full silver sheath Bugis kerises. I thought they were a Javanese manufacture.

What you need is a sheath like this:

Hello Kai Wee,

thank you very much, your knowledge in this area is welcome.

I get both not together, the sheath from silver and hilt is already long in my hands. The blade I bought recently. It has my feeling also that the blade is Sumatran Bugis, but only from the shape of the hilt I have had this feeling.

Of course I can't say for sure that the sheath is old but I get it heavily patinated with this poor blade. And what I am able to say is that I have a second keris with silver sheath (gilded) where I am sure that it have a good age. But I have no knowledge if there have been sheath's like this.

But what have been my main interest was if blade and sheath are matching and I understand from your comment that you don't think so.

Thank you,

Detlef

Sajen · 26th June 2011, 05:54 PM

Here is the above mentioned keris. I have thought many years that the sheath is from brass until I get the idea to clean it carefully with soap and a tooth-brush. Regarding this it would be from great interest if there have been old sheaths like this or not.

Battara · 26th June 2011, 07:04 PM

Sajen really like that blade of yours on this last keris. Great pamor............

Is the dress gilt silver?

Jean · 27th June 2011, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Of course I can't say for sure that the sheath is old but I get it heavily patinated with this poor blade. And what I am able to say is that I have a second keris with silver sheath (gilded) where I am sure that it have a good age. But I have no knowledge if there have been sheath's like this.

Thank you,

Detlef

Hello Detlef,
Regarding your silver scabbard, I also believe that it is an old piece from Sulawesi, back in 1997 I saw similar pieces in a reputed antique shop located in Jalan Somba Opu in Ujung Pandang, with even a distinction between Makassarese and Bugis styles. Unfortunately I already had too many krisses in my suitcase.....
Best regards
Jean

eric45 · 30th July 2011, 02:45 AM

nice ...Erich

Gustav · 26th June 2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

I've always doubted the age of the full silver sheath Bugis kerises. I thought they were a Javanese manufacture.

I also have seen older references only for golden or gilt full metal covered bugis sheaths, like the keris of Sultan of Siak in Zonneveld, page 65, or a keris from Bone (?) in Jasper&Mas Pirngadie, page 233 - "tatarappang, which has an entire golden sheath and golden hilt".

The only refference, where a full silver dress is mentioned, is the PARA 9 in'#44, here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...mbawa+kalawija

"PARA 9
In olden times keris ornamented in gold could only be used by palace nobles, and ordinary people could only use ornamentation from silver. Ornamentation of Sumbawa keris covers the entire scabbard."

It seems to be a contemporary source, so the time of appearing of full silver sheaths there could be questioned.

A. G. Maisey · 27th June 2011, 12:10 AM

There can be no doubt that hilts fully covered in silver and gold go back a very long time in history.

There can also be no doubt that Bugis style scabbards and Balinese style scabbards that are fully covered in silver go back to at least the last half of the 19th century.

I only refer to Bugis style and Balinese because these are the only ones that I have seen and handled, and I nominate the time period because this is the time period that I am certain of.

I cannot recall ever having seen Javanese scabbards fully covered in silver.

Gustav · 27th June 2011, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I cannot recall ever having seen Javanese scabbards fully covered in silver.

Alan, what do you think about the one in van Duuren/Groneman on page 25?

26th June 2011, 04:01 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Opinion requested I have bought some time ago this old Bugis blade with 7 luk. Since I think this blade is worth to get a "house" I looked around what I have. I am unsure if the sheath and hilt is fittingly. Here first the pictures from the blade. Attached Images

26th June 2011, 04:15 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	And here is the sheath and hilt which I have already long. There is a blade inside but this one is completly worn out and have cheaply carved refund gonjo. The sarung is in IMHO an old one and worked from thick silver sheet over wood. It will need some work but I am sure that it will be possible to get a nearly perfect fit. What do you think, is it adequate? Thank you very much for your opinion, Detlef Attached Images

26th June 2011, 04:37 PM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Sajen, From the sheath and blade, looks like a Sumatran Bugis keris. I've always doubted the age of the full silver sheath Bugis kerises. I thought they were a Javanese manufacture. What you need is a sheath like this: Attached Images

26th June 2011, 05:54 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Here is the above mentioned keris. I have thought many years that the sheath is from brass until I get the idea to clean it carefully with soap and a tooth-brush. Regarding this it would be from great interest if there have been old sheaths like this or not. Attached Images Last edited by Sajen; 26th June 2011 at 06:07 PM.

26th June 2011, 04:38 PM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Sorry, forgot to mention the photo was from Liongate. Couldn't find another photo of a Bugis keris from the same region.

26th June 2011, 07:04 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Sajen really like that blade of yours on this last keris. Great pamor............ Is the dress gilt silver?

30th July 2011, 02:45 AM	#9
eric45 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: usa Posts: 32	nice ...Erich

27th June 2011, 12:10 AM	#11
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	There can be no doubt that hilts fully covered in silver and gold go back a very long time in history. There can also be no doubt that Bugis style scabbards and Balinese style scabbards that are fully covered in silver go back to at least the last half of the 19th century. I only refer to Bugis style and Balinese because these are the only ones that I have seen and handled, and I nominate the time period because this is the time period that I am certain of. I cannot recall ever having seen Javanese scabbards fully covered in silver.