Mandara mountains tabouka

Tim Simmons · 11th December 2007, 09:36 PM

This is the last thing this year except for a club I am still waiting for, bought before this sword. I will have to weed the collection in the new year. I am really pleased with this one. I love the patched up scabbard. It most have looked very smart worn on your arm. The pictures are taken indoors with the flash on so they do not show any subtlety. The blade alone is 33.5 inches or 85cm long. What looks like a brake is if you look very close problems with slag. I googled "slag problems in steel blade forging" and read that this can happen in the centre of the blade for some reason? {I did not read more} There is more evidance of slag in the metal in other places on the blade. However the blade has been finished, for the steel well tempered and in the evnviroment I would think quite servicable, though like many a Tabouka I am not sure they were used for fighting. I am not sure the chape is a repair it apears to be make from an old brown boot judging by the double rows of stitch holes, perhaps an old riding boot or military kit leather. Anyway I am more than happy with it but you know I like some unusual things.

katana · 11th December 2007, 09:57 PM

Hi Tim,
followed this one, very unusual.

But I have a reservation.... I do hope I am wrong....but that middle area of the blade looks to have been 'arc' welded and then ground down.

Regards David

Tim Simmons · 11th December 2007, 10:05 PM

I am sure it is not, I did mention the picture quality I will try and get better day light close ups of the hammer weld and other slag affected areas. I wonder is the amount of slag is indication of locally smelted iron rather than industrial trade iron/steel. The environment -

fernando · 11th December 2007, 10:33 PM

Hi David

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Tim,
followed this one, very unusual.

But I have a reservation.... I do hope I am wrong....but that middle area of the blade looks to have been 'arc' welded and then ground down.

Regards David

This is to remind us that there is allways the other side of the coin

We usually hear that a picture is worth a thousand words. In this case, a (Tim's ) word is worth a thousand pictures

Amazing nice piece
Fernando

Robert · 12th December 2007, 12:14 AM

Welding on blade looks more like it was gas welded with a piece of high carbon rod (possible an old coat hanger?) than arc welded to me. I really know nothing of this type of weapon but I like the overall appearance of this. Nice score.

Robert

Jim McDougall · 12th December 2007, 07:20 AM

Hi Tim,
I've really been intrigued by this piece and have gone through as much as I can find on Cameroon weapons. Its been a truly fascinating adventure! From what I can find in previous posts and threads, there are indeed arm daggers somewhat similar to this that you noted were South Saharan, and in the weapons of Cameroon there seem to be wide variations.

Going by what I have read, I would presume your piece might be a tebu/tabu hilt mounted with a sword blade, therefore an arm dagger hilt. Naturally I dont think this would be worn on the arm with a 33" blade, but the reworked scabbard retains its arm loop. The blade and wrapwork on the hilt to me suggest possibly Bali tribal group, but I am uncertain if that would concur with the Mandara attribution you note.

The debate on the diffusion of weapon forms and blades throughout Africa has been going on for a very long time. The key to most of this is to focus on trade route networks, colonial incursion and nomadic movement /interaction. It is really not unusual to see weapons vast distances from thier origins in Africa, and I've always enjoyed the challenge of trying to trace some of these movements.

Very nice acquisition Tim! and a great study piece!!!

All best regards,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 12th December 2007, 09:38 AM

The Mandara region may be quite sizable and could be home to a couple of related peoples. If I put my hand through the arm loop I might not get it off again so I will get my wife to model it. I can see no reason why it could not be worn on the inside of the forearm hilt to the hand. I will try and get magnified day light pictures of the weld so one can see the slag affected metal.

Jim McDougall · 11th December 2007, 10:09 PM

Hi Tim,
Very nice piece!
This is quite a revelation to me, I have honestly never seen a takouba like this before, and was not aware of takoubas in Nigerian/Cameroon regions. I do know that the unusual hilt wth peak type pommel is seen on daggers in those regions. The blade with raised median ridge is quite contrary to known takouba blades, typically simple broadsword with triple central fullers, or obviously broadsword variants.
Also, why do they wear a 33 inch bladed sword on the arm? I know of course of the Tuareg and other arm daggers but they seem a lot smaller.

All best regards,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 11th December 2007, 10:17 PM

It is really quite fascinating Jim and has got me thinking about the spread of straight "sabre" like blades across West Africa "Soudanic Africa West to East or vise versa" and down the East of Central Africa "Shi" Congo Rwanda and even Massai and others. A big area, a big question could be a big debate but would need many contributions?

11th December 2007, 09:36 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Mandara mountains tabouka This is the last thing this year except for a club I am still waiting for, bought before this sword. I will have to weed the collection in the new year. I am really pleased with this one. I love the patched up scabbard. It most have looked very smart worn on your arm. The pictures are taken indoors with the flash on so they do not show any subtlety. The blade alone is 33.5 inches or 85cm long. What looks like a brake is if you look very close problems with slag. I googled "slag problems in steel blade forging" and read that this can happen in the centre of the blade for some reason? {I did not read more} There is more evidance of slag in the metal in other places on the blade. However the blade has been finished, for the steel well tempered and in the evnviroment I would think quite servicable, though like many a Tabouka I am not sure they were used for fighting. I am not sure the chape is a repair it apears to be make from an old brown boot judging by the double rows of stitch holes, perhaps an old riding boot or military kit leather. Anyway I am more than happy with it but you know I like some unusual things.

11th December 2007, 09:57 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Tim, followed this one, very unusual. But I have a reservation.... I do hope I am wrong....but that middle area of the blade looks to have been 'arc' welded and then ground down. Regards David

11th December 2007, 10:05 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I am sure it is not, I did mention the picture quality I will try and get better day light close ups of the hammer weld and other slag affected areas. I wonder is the amount of slag is indication of locally smelted iron rather than industrial trade iron/steel. The environment -

12th December 2007, 12:14 AM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Welding on blade looks more like it was gas welded with a piece of high carbon rod (possible an old coat hanger?) than arc welded to me. I really know nothing of this type of weapon but I like the overall appearance of this. Nice score. Robert

12th December 2007, 07:20 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	Hi Tim, I've really been intrigued by this piece and have gone through as much as I can find on Cameroon weapons. Its been a truly fascinating adventure! From what I can find in previous posts and threads, there are indeed arm daggers somewhat similar to this that you noted were South Saharan, and in the weapons of Cameroon there seem to be wide variations. Going by what I have read, I would presume your piece might be a tebu/tabu hilt mounted with a sword blade, therefore an arm dagger hilt. Naturally I dont think this would be worn on the arm with a 33" blade, but the reworked scabbard retains its arm loop. The blade and wrapwork on the hilt to me suggest possibly Bali tribal group, but I am uncertain if that would concur with the Mandara attribution you note. The debate on the diffusion of weapon forms and blades throughout Africa has been going on for a very long time. The key to most of this is to focus on trade route networks, colonial incursion and nomadic movement /interaction. It is really not unusual to see weapons vast distances from thier origins in Africa, and I've always enjoyed the challenge of trying to trace some of these movements. Very nice acquisition Tim! and a great study piece!!! All best regards, Jim

12th December 2007, 09:38 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	The Mandara region may be quite sizable and could be home to a couple of related peoples. If I put my hand through the arm loop I might not get it off again so I will get my wife to model it. I can see no reason why it could not be worn on the inside of the forearm hilt to the hand. I will try and get magnified day light pictures of the weld so one can see the slag affected metal.

11th December 2007, 10:09 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	Hi Tim, Very nice piece! This is quite a revelation to me, I have honestly never seen a takouba like this before, and was not aware of takoubas in Nigerian/Cameroon regions. I do know that the unusual hilt wth peak type pommel is seen on daggers in those regions. The blade with raised median ridge is quite contrary to known takouba blades, typically simple broadsword with triple central fullers, or obviously broadsword variants. Also, why do they wear a 33 inch bladed sword on the arm? I know of course of the Tuareg and other arm daggers but they seem a lot smaller. All best regards, Jim

11th December 2007, 10:17 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	It is really quite fascinating Jim and has got me thinking about the spread of straight "sabre" like blades across West Africa "Soudanic Africa West to East or vise versa" and down the East of Central Africa "Shi" Congo Rwanda and even Massai and others. A big area, a big question could be a big debate but would need many contributions?