Karud dagger with unusual chased scabbard

[francantolin]

Hello dear members,

today I come with a massive karud dagger
I just acquired.

Afghan or north indian origin,
The hilt is made of bone or walrus ivory.

The silver scabbard mounts looks unusual to me:

Makes me think of Tibetan-bhutanese daggers or kappala . Or chinese origin.

So maybe all was made in eastern Afghanistan area close to China ?

Or in northern India ?

Or a later add for the scabard ??

[mahratt]

Hello francolin

Congratulations on a good purchase.
Very interesting scabbard mounts looks.
It is hard to tell if this karud comes from eastern Afghanistan area close to China or it belonged to a resident of Nepal. We are accustomed to very specific forms of Tibetan daggers. And at the same time, absolutely Indian (in our understanding, daggers and sabers) were actively used by the inhabitants of this region.

[ariel]

IMHO, it is a typical Afghani Pesh Kabz with straight blade, popularly known among collectors as Karud. The chamfered edge is a dead giveaway.
The handle was repaired as witnessed by the inserts.
The 2x1x1 rivets occasionally were seen on Central Asian daggers.
I would not exclude elephant ivory as a handle materiel from these pics, the slabs suggest solid source. It is for you to decide. The bone, IMHO, is less likely because of concentric cracks at the top of the pommel and the absense of superficial short black lines going lengthwise: remnants of periostal blood vessels. Also, it might be interesting to see a pic of the top of the pommel: any long bone has a bone marrow cavity that would present as an " open space" in the middle. Would also measure the thickness of the solid " bony" materiel at the top: it looks very thick and it might be difficult to imagine a long bone with such a thick cortical layer. Walrus is also unlikely: no secondary dentin seen. I would not exclude the possibility of a scabbard belonging to another, smaller, Pesh Kabz with leather ( or fabric?) extension being added to accomodate this bigger sample.

I see nothing that would suggest, and am unaware of any similar dagger in either Nepal or China. Both are far away from Afghanistan.

These are just suggestions: you have it in your hands and can correct each and every of my uncertainties.

[francantolin]

Thank you Mahratt and Ariel for your comments,

I suggested bone or ivory because I still don't have it in my hands,
have to get it not too late I hope !
Il will post better pictures of the hilt and scabbard,
I would maybe see if the scabbard is made of one piece or has extensions as Ariel said,

for the Afghan-chinese link,
I was thinking of the eastern part of Afghanistan, Badakhchan province and the Wakhan district who has an east frontier with China
(south frontier with Pakistan, ex British Empire ,
north with Tadjikistan, ex USSR )
Tadjikistan make me think of the 2x1x1 rivets seen in central Asia as Ariel mentioned, maybe it's a clue...

For the Wackan people living there , they are few ''poor'' nomads in this wonderful but hard to live area,
don't know if they still have/had these type of daggers ?

Kind regards

[mahratt]

Hello, francolin.

Undoubtedly, this Karud dagger itself is of Afghan-Indian origin. Of main interest are the details of the scabbard.
No, Tajikistan and the Tajiks of Badakhshan certainly have nothing to do with the decoration of the details of the scabbard of your new dagger.
When I talked about the eastern Afghanistan area close to China, I meant a small area of the territory, which I circled in red on the map.
Unfortunately, I do not have photos with the native people of Nepal who have Karud daggers. But the use of talwars and kutars by the Nepalese is absolutely known. Therefore, the possibility that Karuds could also be used in this region cannot be ruled out.

Well, the second image that I am posting is a Karud in an absolutely Tibetan-Nepalese sheath from the collection of the museum Gugong in Pekin.

[francantolin]

Exact ! Wakhan nomad people living in the ''wakhan corridor'' area.

Nice and interesting picture of this karud with his coral turquoise silver scabbard in '' tibetan himalayan style''.

I wonder what is written in chinese on the description and if they call this dagger ''karud'' ?.....

[ariel]

Practice of "pretty-fying" weapons is well-known. For example, khans and emirs of Central Asia sent presents to the Russian Tsars: just a garden varieties of good, often wootz, daggers from India, Persia or Afghanistan were embellished with enormous amouns of gold, new gold scabbards with gems etc. They thought that kitsch was a good thing for a Royal Present:-)



And yes, Nepalese warriors used tulwars and katars. This is not surprising taking into account that Rajputs immigrated to Nepal as early as 13 century and from there on, evading Muslim persecutions. They brought with them their weapons. But I completely agree with Mahratt that there is no good evidence of "karuds" use in Nepal. I am also very doubtful that the Chinese example can serve as a positive evidence of anything. IMHO, it is a very pretty-fied garden variety Central Asian karud.

I still think that there is a stark contrast between the simplicity and crudeness of the dagger itself and the elaborate scabbard. Scabbards in general had a much shorter life span than the blades and most of the old bladed weapons are on their second ( third, fourth...) scabbard. In short, my guess you got yourself a pretty old Central Asian "karud" with an old replacement scabbard.

But after all, as a rule photos allow only very superficial assessment. Only having the actual example allows the new owner to reach valid conclusions.

Overall, you got yourself a very nice new toy. Enjoy it!