Question marks on a supposedly Russian Yataghan with Shashka grip and “bulat” blade?

Richard R. · 18th November 2020, 06:44 PM

Hi,

I bought this supposedly Russian Yataghan with a bulat (wootz) blade some years ago and would like to ask your opinion about dating an origin of this weapon.

The” Damascus Pattern” on the blade changes depending the light and angle looking on it.

Kind regards

Richard R.

David R · 18th November 2020, 09:16 PM

Bulat is hard to fake and the metal mounts look righteous, so personally I think the important bits are right.....As for the rest I await comments. I would like a better pic of the whole piece.

Richard R. · 18th November 2020, 10:41 PM

Here some additional pictures.

Kubur · 19th November 2020, 12:00 AM

Very Indian to me
But to be safe I would say at 99.9% in a triangle between India, Afghanistan and Uzbekistan.

ariel · 19th November 2020, 06:53 AM

Agree with Kubur: the blade is not Russian, but +/- Central Asia / India.

Anosov, alleged re-discoverer of Bulat, had some blades made. All of them were rather pitiful renditions of Shams, even though he claimed to reproduce tabans and khorasans. He got the instruction how to make Bulat ingots, but the mastery of forging them was well beyond him. Russian metallurgists and historians darkly comment to this day that there are still unseen examples in Russian museums, but that they are so secret that cannot be shown. At the very least Anosov is credited with a discovery that Bulat is an alloy of iron and carbon, nothing else. But even that is not true: Faraday knew it years earlier and tried to simplify the process by adding various other element .

After Anosov’s death, his former Zlatoust colleagues got hold of his written recipes and tried to create Bulat ingots. Nothing came out of it.

The story of Russian Bulat is fascinating and I think from time to time to publish it: it is a detective story, with industrial espionage, carefully choreographed publications, passion to be the “ first”, attempts of obtaining confirmation of the “ first- ness” from the foreigners, and a final hiding of the methodology so that nobody steals it. Science at its most human and worst:-)))

Richard R. · 19th November 2020, 08:40 AM

What about this Yataghan wit Damascus-Pattern, also Russian or +/- Central Asia or Indian?

18th November 2020, 06:44 PM	#1
Richard R. Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 26	Question marks on a supposedly Russian Yataghan with Shashka grip and “bulat” blade? Hi, I bought this supposedly Russian Yataghan with a bulat (wootz) blade some years ago and would like to ask your opinion about dating an origin of this weapon. The” Damascus Pattern” on the blade changes depending the light and angle looking on it. Kind regards Richard R. Attached Images

18th November 2020, 10:41 PM	#3
Richard R. Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 26	Here some additional pictures. Attached Images Last edited by Richard R.; 18th November 2020 at 10:58 PM.

19th November 2020, 08:40 AM	#6
Richard R. Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 26	What about this Yataghan wit Damascus-Pattern, also Russian or +/- Central Asia or Indian? Attached Images

18th November 2020, 09:16 PM	#2
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	Bulat is hard to fake and the metal mounts look righteous, so personally I think the important bits are right.....As for the rest I await comments. I would like a better pic of the whole piece.

19th November 2020, 12:00 AM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Very Indian to me But to be safe I would say at 99.9% in a triangle between India, Afghanistan and Uzbekistan.

19th November 2020, 06:53 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Agree with Kubur: the blade is not Russian, but +/- Central Asia / India. Anosov, alleged re-discoverer of Bulat, had some blades made. All of them were rather pitiful renditions of Shams, even though he claimed to reproduce tabans and khorasans. He got the instruction how to make Bulat ingots, but the mastery of forging them was well beyond him. Russian metallurgists and historians darkly comment to this day that there are still unseen examples in Russian museums, but that they are so secret that cannot be shown. At the very least Anosov is credited with a discovery that Bulat is an alloy of iron and carbon, nothing else. But even that is not true: Faraday knew it years earlier and tried to simplify the process by adding various other element . After Anosov’s death, his former Zlatoust colleagues got hold of his written recipes and tried to create Bulat ingots. Nothing came out of it. The story of Russian Bulat is fascinating and I think from time to time to publish it: it is a detective story, with industrial espionage, carefully choreographed publications, passion to be the “ first”, attempts of obtaining confirmation of the “ first- ness” from the foreigners, and a final hiding of the methodology so that nobody steals it. Science at its most human and worst:-)))