Katar with scabbard

Silver John · 31st August 2015, 09:49 AM

Hello,

I have a wootz katar that I picked up in a mixed lot at auction. Though the katar itself is very plain, I was wondering if it is possible to date or place it, perhaps based on the scabbard?

Any comments would be most welcome.

Regards

Ian · 31st August 2015, 02:56 PM

John:

Dating of katars is a subject that has been discussed here several times and it is very difficult. Basically, the same design has been in use for hundreds of years. Suggest that you use the search function to see what has been said previously, and I imagine Jens will be along shortly with his usual erudite discussion on this subject.

Ian.

ariel · 31st August 2015, 06:17 PM

Taking into account that it is wootz, the katar is grossly unlikely to be younger than the first half of the 19 century. Older - definitely.
Scabbards, like all organic materials, wore out pretty easily and yours may be a later replacement, or even a 3rd or a 4th one :-) Somehow, I do not think it may provide accurate dating of the katar.

Waiting for Jens, he is definitely smarter and better informed.

Jens Nordlunde · 31st August 2015, 10:50 PM

Ian and Ariel,
Thank you for the kind words - but I am not an expert and I am not a schollar - I am not even a wissard.
What I am, is what everyone could be, if he so whishes - a dedicated collector. I do know, there are several dedicated collectors on this forum - I am glad to say. Fewer than some years ago, but still quite a lot.

Ok to the katar. Forget the scabbard like Ariel has said, as they were thrown away in battle worn out, or something else.
The katar is a common type, and could be like Ariel says be anything from first half of 19th century and older.

So how do we date katars? This is one of the hartest things I have ever met.
Mostly you try out for they type - usually not very helpful as the same type has been made for decades. Then you try out for the decoration - if there is any - but also here you are in for a problem, as the decoration could be newer - according to the fashion. But it is not always esy to tell if the decoration fits the age of the weapon or not.
What do you then do - you start researching!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean it!

With all respect - many of us have researched - and many profit from it, but they dont try to research themselves - why not?

Start researching, and let us discuss the results on the forum.

Silver John, next time you photograph try to awoid the shades like the plaque. Photograph outside when it is clouded, or maybe in the shadow - but stare at the item to make sure there is as little shadow as possible.

Happy photographing

Jens

not2sharp · 10th September 2015, 08:38 PM

Are there any recommended references or articles on the Katar. I have several, but historical infomation on these has always seemed very scarce.

n2s

Jens Nordlunde · 10th September 2015, 10:39 PM

Here is an article about the katar
http://www.maneyonline.com/doi/abs/1...ournalCode=aaa
I have also written an article about the Bundi katar - but that is more a special katar type.
Jens

31st August 2015, 09:49 AM	#1
Silver John Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 31	Katar with scabbard Hello, I have a wootz katar that I picked up in a mixed lot at auction. Though the katar itself is very plain, I was wondering if it is possible to date or place it, perhaps based on the scabbard? Any comments would be most welcome. Regards Attached Images

31st August 2015, 02:56 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	John: Dating of katars is a subject that has been discussed here several times and it is very difficult. Basically, the same design has been in use for hundreds of years. Suggest that you use the search function to see what has been said previously, and I imagine Jens will be along shortly with his usual erudite discussion on this subject. Ian.

31st August 2015, 06:17 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Taking into account that it is wootz, the katar is grossly unlikely to be younger than the first half of the 19 century. Older - definitely. Scabbards, like all organic materials, wore out pretty easily and yours may be a later replacement, or even a 3rd or a 4th one :-) Somehow, I do not think it may provide accurate dating of the katar. Waiting for Jens, he is definitely smarter and better informed.

31st August 2015, 10:50 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ian and Ariel, Thank you for the kind words - but I am not an expert and I am not a schollar - I am not even a wissard. What I am, is what everyone could be, if he so whishes - a dedicated collector. I do know, there are several dedicated collectors on this forum - I am glad to say. Fewer than some years ago, but still quite a lot. Ok to the katar. Forget the scabbard like Ariel has said, as they were thrown away in battle worn out, or something else. The katar is a common type, and could be like Ariel says be anything from first half of 19th century and older. So how do we date katars? This is one of the hartest things I have ever met. Mostly you try out for they type - usually not very helpful as the same type has been made for decades. Then you try out for the decoration - if there is any - but also here you are in for a problem, as the decoration could be newer - according to the fashion. But it is not always esy to tell if the decoration fits the age of the weapon or not. What do you then do - you start researching!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean it! With all respect - many of us have researched - and many profit from it, but they dont try to research themselves - why not? Start researching, and let us discuss the results on the forum. Silver John, next time you photograph try to awoid the shades like the plaque. Photograph outside when it is clouded, or maybe in the shadow - but stare at the item to make sure there is as little shadow as possible. Happy photographing Jens

10th September 2015, 08:38 PM	#5
not2sharp Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 210	Are there any recommended references or articles on the Katar. I have several, but historical infomation on these has always seemed very scarce. n2s

10th September 2015, 10:39 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Here is an article about the katar http://www.maneyonline.com/doi/abs/1...ournalCode=aaa I have also written an article about the Bundi katar - but that is more a special katar type. Jens