Ivory sale/import/export and CITES

[mariusgmioc]

Considering the importance of the topic, I have decided to open a new thread dealing with practical information pertaining sale/import/export of ivory containing objects under the new provisions of the CITES treaty.

Conclusion: all antiques containing ivory can be sold/imported/exported without restriction providing that
1. the ivory they contain is "worked"
("worked" meaning it is carved on its entire surface or it is cut and shaped into a diferent - from the raw tusk shape - object)
2. the object including the ivory is antique and the ivory parts haven't been replaced or repaired recently.

For this, a certificate from an authorised apraiser is required.

For example an Indian Karud with plain ivory hilt can be sold/imported/exported without restriction if it is accompanied by a certificate atestig that it is antique and didn't suffer recent repairs. The ivory scales in this case are considered "worked" ivory since they were cut and shaped as scales (gave you this example as I recently purchased this Karud from US and imported it into the Netherlands).

[kai]

Hello Marius,

It needs added emphasis, that it's not the CITES agreements but rather the law and regulations as implemented by member countries (or any federal states) - quite a few of these are much stricter than CITES per se!

For example, you're lucky that the scales are walrus. If they would have been made from african elephant, there was no way to get this piece into the US (except maybe by special permit for scientific reasons if successfully cleared by the authorities). Your chances getting it out of the US would depend on in which state the piece was acquired with states like California, New Jersey, or New York making it very, very tough again...

Here is an old thread with some very basic CITES info. However, the rules are changing all the time and I'm not sure we can keep all needed info current for all legislations...

Regards,
Kai

[mariusgmioc]

Thank you!

Very useful!

[Jens Nordlunde]

Can anyone with contacts to Sotheby's or Christies please ask how they do it?

[silberschatzimsee]

I was at christies 2 weeks ago in London and there they mentioned there is a total embargo to France with ivory items. It must have been a very new rule because they told it before every item containing ivory.

Since I collect ivoryitems I was keen-eared on this topic.


Ps: So the workaround would be to fly to Germany your purchase, drive by car to france and forget things in the glove box or in the backseat.

[silberschatzimsee]

Pps: I sadly didn't win my lot and do not live in France so I had no problems when flying back.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Yes Rick, you are right thet a well funded advocacy group that is international in scope would be very good to have on our side of the fence.
Could museums like the MET and National museums be interested in a project

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Yes Rick, you are right thet a well funded advocacy group that is international in scope would be very good to have on our side of the fence.
Could museums like the MET and National museums be interested in a project

More likely major auction houses like Christie's, Sotheby's, Czerny's, etc. but I wouldn't hold my breath since even for them ivory items form only a very tiny fraction of their business.

Probably more realistically, we will have to deal with the problem ourselves on a individual "when needed" basis.

[silberschatzimsee]

https://www.antiquestradegazette.com...nasty-tea-set/

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by silberschatzimsee

https://www.antiquestradegazette.com...nasty-tea-set/

This is like a symphony of absurdity!

I can easily understand that some customs officers have no more brains than a goose, but I would have expected more from a judge. I guess I was wrong in my expectations!

We must have entered the last stages of decay of our civilisation since common sense appears to be consistently replaced with idiocy!

[Athanase]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

This is like a symphony of absurdity!

I can easily understand that some customs officers have no more brains than a goose, but I would have expected more from a judge. I guess I was wrong in my expectations!

We must have entered the last stages of decay of our civilisation since common sense appears to be consistently replaced with idiocy!

Your comment reminds me the film Idiocracy....

My parents have many ivory objects inherited from my grandfather who worked for a long time in Africa (before 1970). They are not to be sold, but the question arises as to the legality of the possession of such objects.