Brass hilted dha/daab for ID

Ian · 11th July 2015, 06:29 PM

This is a recent addition to my collection and has me a little stumped as to origin.

It has a brass hilt of elliptical cross section and a small guard. The hilt reminds me somewhat of the Japanese-influenced Thai daab from the Rattanikosin period in the mid-19th C. There are a number of high end daab in the National Museum in Bangkok that show this style of hilt in gold (some examples are shown in this link http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002442.html). However, I'm not entirely happy with that designation.

The sword definitely has some age and might well be 150 years old. I'm not inclined to damage the patina on the blade or hilt at this time just to see what's underneath.

Thoughts about where this one may be from would be welcomed. I have my suspicions, and have talked with fellow forumite Nathan off line and he has some thoughts too. But I would like to hear from other dhafia as to where they think this one may be from.

Ian.

CharlesS · 11th July 2015, 10:28 PM

Ian,

This is one of the more interesting ones I've seen in a long time. I'm looking forward to seeing what people have to say.

Is Khmer, or Cambodian, out of the discussion??

Ian · 11th July 2015, 10:59 PM

Charles,

I think all possibilities should be under consideration.

Ian.

Battara · 12th July 2015, 01:04 AM

Cast bronze - could it be Khmer? Little different form for Khmer, but may older pieces that I have seen from there seem to be cast bronze.

Great casting work!

Ian · 14th July 2015, 09:51 PM

I have received a very confident identification of this sword in an email from an international sword dealer. The individual has asked not to be identified or quoted directly on this forum, so I will respect his wishes and summarize briefly what he has to say.

The sword is from the Lao kingdom of Lan Xang Hom Khao (Kingdom of a Thousand Elephants Under the White Parasol) which lasted from 1354–1707 C.E. This was the founding dynasty of what is today Laos.

The sword dates from at least the early 18th C. and is probably more than 300 years old.

The hilt is made of samrit bronze (or auspicious alloy) which is an alloy that includes copper and tin, plus small amounts of silver, gold and mercury, and the "secret ingredient" of burnt ashes of the bua bok creeper that was used to amalgamate the mixture. This samrit alloy does not turn dark green-brown with age (as you can see from the pictures here)--if cleaned now it would resemble gold (which was the whole idea in producing this alloy).

The style of hilt on the sword above and its samrit bronze construction predate the more familiar silver and bronze repoussed hilts of other Lan Chang daab (and swords in the Lan Chang style are still being made today). Consequently, this sword dates very closely to the time period of the dynasty and might be 17th C. or earlier--it is a very old sword according to this dealer who seems to know what he is talking about.

One final point. The hilt at some time has been remounted upside down. It should continue in a single graceful curve in harmony with the curve of the blade. The remounting seems to have occurred many years ago because there is no evidence of the hilt having been disturbed recently.

Take these comments for what you will. I don't like passing on information that cannot be verified readily and based on one person's opinion. On the other hand, I have no reason to question the accuracy of these comments.

If what he says is true, I really lucked out and found a sleeping beauty at an incredibly good price. What we all hope to find for our collections, right!

Ian.

spiral · 14th July 2015, 11:00 PM

I have no knowledge of this weapon but as an ex. foundryman , {many many moons ago.} as well as a collector of ethnographic weapons, I can say the hilt casting is fantastic quality & in my experience of other weapons that does often imply an early date.

spiral

11th July 2015, 06:29 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,204	Brass hilted dha/daab for ID This is a recent addition to my collection and has me a little stumped as to origin. It has a brass hilt of elliptical cross section and a small guard. The hilt reminds me somewhat of the Japanese-influenced Thai daab from the Rattanikosin period in the mid-19th C. There are a number of high end daab in the National Museum in Bangkok that show this style of hilt in gold (some examples are shown in this link http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002442.html). However, I'm not entirely happy with that designation. The sword definitely has some age and might well be 150 years old. I'm not inclined to damage the patina on the blade or hilt at this time just to see what's underneath. Thoughts about where this one may be from would be welcomed. I have my suspicions, and have talked with fellow forumite Nathan off line and he has some thoughts too. But I would like to hear from other dhafia as to where they think this one may be from. Ian. Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 11th July 2015 at 06:50 PM.

11th July 2015, 10:28 PM	#2
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Ian, This is one of the more interesting ones I've seen in a long time. I'm looking forward to seeing what people have to say. Is Khmer, or Cambodian, out of the discussion??

11th July 2015, 10:59 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,204	Charles, I think all possibilities should be under consideration. Ian.

12th July 2015, 01:04 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Cast bronze - could it be Khmer? Little different form for Khmer, but may older pieces that I have seen from there seem to be cast bronze. Great casting work!

14th July 2015, 09:51 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,204	I have received a very confident identification of this sword in an email from an international sword dealer. The individual has asked not to be identified or quoted directly on this forum, so I will respect his wishes and summarize briefly what he has to say. The sword is from the Lao kingdom of Lan Xang Hom Khao (Kingdom of a Thousand Elephants Under the White Parasol) which lasted from 1354–1707 C.E. This was the founding dynasty of what is today Laos. The sword dates from at least the early 18th C. and is probably more than 300 years old. The hilt is made of samrit bronze (or auspicious alloy) which is an alloy that includes copper and tin, plus small amounts of silver, gold and mercury, and the "secret ingredient" of burnt ashes of the bua bok creeper that was used to amalgamate the mixture. This samrit alloy does not turn dark green-brown with age (as you can see from the pictures here)--if cleaned now it would resemble gold (which was the whole idea in producing this alloy). The style of hilt on the sword above and its samrit bronze construction predate the more familiar silver and bronze repoussed hilts of other Lan Chang daab (and swords in the Lan Chang style are still being made today). Consequently, this sword dates very closely to the time period of the dynasty and might be 17th C. or earlier--it is a very old sword according to this dealer who seems to know what he is talking about. One final point. The hilt at some time has been remounted upside down. It should continue in a single graceful curve in harmony with the curve of the blade. The remounting seems to have occurred many years ago because there is no evidence of the hilt having been disturbed recently. Take these comments for what you will. I don't like passing on information that cannot be verified readily and based on one person's opinion. On the other hand, I have no reason to question the accuracy of these comments. If what he says is true, I really lucked out and found a sleeping beauty at an incredibly good price. What we all hope to find for our collections, right! Ian.

14th July 2015, 11:00 PM	#6
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I have no knowledge of this weapon but as an ex. foundryman , {many many moons ago.} as well as a collector of ethnographic weapons, I can say the hilt casting is fantastic quality & in my experience of other weapons that does often imply an early date. spiral