Interesting Tulwar with faint engraved design....Any Ideas ?

katana · 19th December 2007, 03:02 PM

Would anyone have any ideas as to the origin of this Tulwar?

Heavily rusted, I have removed the 'live' rust' to discover a faint/ worn engraved design in the Choil area, difficult to see in the photos, so I have included a 'rough sketch' to show some of the detail. Look like sun symbols ?? The blade has deeply stamped 'cresents and round star like circles', which I have seen on some other Indian weapons (and African......and Afghani.... and ...)

Heavy blade, little distal taper and no false edge, a definate melee 'hacker' or possibly a Naval sword.

The hilt has 'scallop' detailing.

OAL 30.5" (approx 77 cms)
Blade 26" (66cms) following curve of blade, width at choil 40mm

All comments, suggestions etc gratefully received, thank you

Kind Regards David

ariel · 19th December 2007, 06:37 PM

Very unusual quillons, too!

katana · 19th December 2007, 09:04 PM

Hi Ariel,
I haven't seen this type of quillion before, or this type of decoration to the blade (the faint engraving). But because of the 'scallop' looking quillion ends and the shortish blade, I wondered whether this could be some sort of 'Naval Issue'.

The patina of the blade suggests 18thC to early 19thC and seems well made, not certain (due to patination) but looks to have laminations.

Regards David

Jim McDougall · 19th December 2007, 11:49 PM

Hi David,
Most unusual! and as always you have great observations. The scalloped shell is something I cannot say I've seen, and though I dont know of specifically instituted navy in India that would have issued weapons as such, it surely seems plausible (maybe this should be on the pirate weapons thread

I agree with your thoughts on probable period though, it does seem late 18th c.
More research !!!
All the best,
Jim

ariel · 20th December 2007, 12:25 AM

The eyelah mark looks very weak.The semicircles remind me of Thai Dhas.
Even the contour of the handle does not look Indian.
I have a strange feeling that it was not made in India. SE Asia?????
I know, I know, it DOES sound silly...

Jim McDougall · 20th December 2007, 04:12 AM

Actually Ariel, your thoughts might not be so silly. There is something very unusual about this hilt, the quillons and langet notwithstanding. The hilt seems heavy and disproportionate, and those circles with small prongs around do seem like markings like this on Cham (I believe) dhas and weapons. the arrangement of opposed semicircles and strategically placed 'solar' symbols at either end recall the often seen 'sickle' marks.
While this weapon is of the period suggested and of tulwar form, it does seem atypical overall.
The shell motif David mentioned was indeed a good suggestion, but I am wondering if there might be some auspicious Buddhist symbolism here rather than maritime use? Would the scallop shell be symbolically significant much as the conch shell is as one of the auspicious symbols?

best regards,
Jim

19th December 2007, 03:02 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Interesting Tulwar with faint engraved design....Any Ideas ? Would anyone have any ideas as to the origin of this Tulwar? Heavily rusted, I have removed the 'live' rust' to discover a faint/ worn engraved design in the Choil area, difficult to see in the photos, so I have included a 'rough sketch' to show some of the detail. Look like sun symbols ?? The blade has deeply stamped 'cresents and round star like circles', which I have seen on some other Indian weapons (and African......and Afghani.... and ...) Heavy blade, little distal taper and no false edge, a definate melee 'hacker' or possibly a Naval sword. The hilt has 'scallop' detailing. OAL 30.5" (approx 77 cms) Blade 26" (66cms) following curve of blade, width at choil 40mm All comments, suggestions etc gratefully received, thank you Kind Regards David Attached Images

19th December 2007, 06:37 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Very unusual quillons, too!

19th December 2007, 09:04 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Ariel, I haven't seen this type of quillion before, or this type of decoration to the blade (the faint engraving). But because of the 'scallop' looking quillion ends and the shortish blade, I wondered whether this could be some sort of 'Naval Issue'. The patina of the blade suggests 18thC to early 19thC and seems well made, not certain (due to patination) but looks to have laminations. Regards David

19th December 2007, 11:49 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,814	Hi David, Most unusual! and as always you have great observations. The scalloped shell is something I cannot say I've seen, and though I dont know of specifically instituted navy in India that would have issued weapons as such, it surely seems plausible (maybe this should be on the pirate weapons thread I agree with your thoughts on probable period though, it does seem late 18th c. More research !!! All the best, Jim

20th December 2007, 12:25 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The eyelah mark looks very weak.The semicircles remind me of Thai Dhas. Even the contour of the handle does not look Indian. I have a strange feeling that it was not made in India. SE Asia????? I know, I know, it DOES sound silly...

20th December 2007, 04:12 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,814	Actually Ariel, your thoughts might not be so silly. There is something very unusual about this hilt, the quillons and langet notwithstanding. The hilt seems heavy and disproportionate, and those circles with small prongs around do seem like markings like this on Cham (I believe) dhas and weapons. the arrangement of opposed semicircles and strategically placed 'solar' symbols at either end recall the often seen 'sickle' marks. While this weapon is of the period suggested and of tulwar form, it does seem atypical overall. The shell motif David mentioned was indeed a good suggestion, but I am wondering if there might be some auspicious Buddhist symbolism here rather than maritime use? Would the scallop shell be symbolically significant much as the conch shell is as one of the auspicious symbols? best regards, Jim