Batak sword - bone handle

Bill M · 27th December 2018, 10:31 AM

I found two Batak swords in a flea market. Brought them both home. I love Batak. Their wonderful designs. I took some pictures "as found" for my insurance. I stabilized the rust and left the patina.

Your opinion?

shayde78 · 28th December 2018, 02:24 AM

Of this much I am certain...you have far better flea markets than have I.

Sajen · 4th January 2019, 02:40 PM

Hello Bill,

This is as well a Toba Batak kalasan when we want to follow Volz.

I personally would clean the blade proper, I hate rusty blades and keep in mind that it isn't patina but rust/corrosion and rust is active, equal if red or brown/black.

Regards,
Detlef

Bill M · 4th January 2019, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Bill,

This is as well a Toba Batak kalasan when we want to follow Volz.

I personally would clean the blade proper, I hate rusty blades and keep in mind that it isn't patina but rust/corrosion and rust is active, equal if red or brown/black.

Regards,
Detlef

The pictures were made when I first brought them home from the flea market.

Thank you Detlef. I also hate rusty blades! I should have been more clear in my post. "Stabilized the Rust". I removed the rust and stabilized the blade. I do not like to polish to chrome shine, I like the patina and age marks.

Sajen · 4th January 2019, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill M

The pictures were made when I first brought them home from the flea market.

Thank you Detlef. I also hate rusty blades! I should have been more clear in my post. "Stabilized the Rust". I removed the rust and stabilized the blade. I do not like to polish to chrome shine, I like the patina and age marks.

Ah, now I understand!

kai · 4th January 2019, 11:59 PM

Hello Bill & Detlef,

Sorry for coming late to the party!

Bill, thanks for posting some more Batak pieces! Could you add data for blade length and (max.) thickness, please?

Quote:

This is as well a Toba Batak kalasan when we want to follow Volz.

Well, the name game is pretty tricky with most Batak stuff, especially since there are lots of local differences and so few early sources that document the old traditions before the cultural transformations. Moreover, Volz did not really explored the whole Toba region while noting that there are strong local differences. Even if the name kalasan was actually used in the Toba periphery when Volz visited, van der Tuuk does not mention this name for the Toba core area in his earlier dictionary. Anyway, the blades tend to be quite different between Toba and Karo; this one is Toba.

The fittings are also typical for the Toba core area.

If we go with the common collectors' terminology, I feel the label piso halasan is quite suitable for this piece (cp. Fig. 422 in AvZ).

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 5th January 2019, 01:09 PM

Hello Kai,

yes, you are correct and I am aware about this so I extra write in my post "when we want to follow Volz".
But frankly said sounds halasan very similar to kalasan, it may be just the different dialect/language between this both Batak groups or the different understanding/translation from Volz and van der Tuuk. It just would be good to know the exact translation of kalasan/halasan.

But agree with you for sure that halasan would be a better denotation that expert collectors understand direct about what we speak.

Regards,
Detlef

CharlesS · 6th January 2019, 02:02 PM

The bone looks to be a replacement, perhaps made in two parts and glued together around the tang? Your thoughts, Bill?

27th December 2018, 10:31 AM	#1
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Batak sword - bone handle I found two Batak swords in a flea market. Brought them both home. I love Batak. Their wonderful designs. I took some pictures "as found" for my insurance. I stabilized the rust and left the patina. Your opinion? Attached Images

28th December 2018, 02:24 AM	#2
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Of this much I am certain...you have far better flea markets than have I.

4th January 2019, 02:40 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Hello Bill, This is as well a Toba Batak kalasan when we want to follow Volz. I personally would clean the blade proper, I hate rusty blades and keep in mind that it isn't patina but rust/corrosion and rust is active, equal if red or brown/black. Regards, Detlef

5th January 2019, 01:09 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Hello Kai, yes, you are correct and I am aware about this so I extra write in my post "when we want to follow Volz". But frankly said sounds halasan very similar to kalasan, it may be just the different dialect/language between this both Batak groups or the different understanding/translation from Volz and van der Tuuk. It just would be good to know the exact translation of kalasan/halasan. But agree with you for sure that halasan would be a better denotation that expert collectors understand direct about what we speak. Regards, Detlef

6th January 2019, 02:02 PM	#8
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	The bone looks to be a replacement, perhaps made in two parts and glued together around the tang? Your thoughts, Bill?