Archaic proto-, boy's- or miniature souvenir-kris?

[VVV]

I have just finished etching this strange kris.
It looks very old and a nice twist core showed up along the blade.
But there is not a separate ganja and its size is inbetween a Javanese and a Balinese keris.
This is the smallest Moro kris I have seen (so far).
It's 52 cm (20 1/2") in scabbard and the blade is 39,5 cm (15 1/2").

What do you think it is?

Michael

[Battara]

Actually, VVV, this is about right for an old pre-1800s Moro kris like this. They were smaller then and got larger as time went on. Not unusual at all, and I knew that it would have a twistcore. It probably does have a separable ganga, but it will take magnification to see it, and it may be in a straight line, making it harder to see (or just hard to see).

I wanted this piece, but did not have the funds this time. IT is one of the best examples of this type and you are fortunate to have the scabbard with it. Congratulations! (grumble, grumble, envy, envy ..... ).

[kai]

Hello Michael,

Congrats, that's a beauty!

It looks very old and a nice twist core showed up along the blade.

Seems like I won my bet.

But there is not a separate ganja

Wow, are you sure? 10x magnifying lens?

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Hello Michael,

This is the smallest Moro kris I have seen (so far).
It's 52 cm (20 1/2") in scabbard and the blade is 39,5 cm (15 1/2").

The wear seems to be consistent with a really old blade.

How long is the gripping length - isn't that too long for a (Moro) boy's fist?

Regards,
Kai

[Battara]

Originally Posted by kai

How long is the gripping length - isn't that too long for a (Moro) boy's fist?

Kai, you make some good points. I agree that this is not a boy's kris and that the hilt is too long for that.

[VVV]

Thanks for your comments!

The gripping area is only 7,5 cm, slightly less than a ukiran keris (see comparison picture).
On the ganja there is none (checked with a 8x).
But I have recieved off-forum info that this, ganja iras, could be a sign
of a really archaic keris/kris.

Michael

[kai]

Hello Michael,

The gripping area is only 7,5 cm

That's not much; however, it's within the range of mature Southeast Asians - just remeasured a non-representative sample of fully grown hands with exactly this gripping length...

On the ganja there is none (checked with a 8x).

Thanks for the confirmation! So, some grain of the steel running into the gangya area?

But I have recieved off-forum info that this, ganja iras, could be a sign of a really archaic keris/kris.

Any supporting evidence? Pics?

Regards,
Kai

[A. G. Maisey]

Blade length 18".

Overall length 22.75"

Length of grip section of hilt 3.25"

Scabbard damaged but original.

[kino]

Very nice. Congrats.

[David]

Michael, that is just plain sweet! A nice find.

[Flavio]

Wonderful piece Michael, I'd like to have one of this

[VVV]

Thanks for all comments.

Any additional ideas on what it is?
Jose, have you seen other kris of this, very small, size?

Michael

[Rick]

An 18 1/4" blade, close .
If yours is a Ganga Iras it would be the first archaic example I have ever seen .

[Battara]

Originally Posted by VVV

Jose, have you seen other kris of this, very small, size?

This exact size, no, but this type of size yes. Yours is probably the earliest and smallest of the Moro kris I have seen.