nimcha with "extended" ricasso

stephen wood · 6th February 2009, 07:25 PM

The ricasso on this blade strikes me as rather long - has anyone come across one like this before?

I assume that it is from the Maghreb, quite old and think that the blade might be European - I don't immediately recognise it as any particular model of sabre.

Interestingly, the guard appears to be fixed - welded possibly - to the blade.

Would appreciate any suggestions.

katana · 6th February 2009, 08:20 PM

Hi Stephen,
it would very unusual to have the guard 'welded' to the blade.

It might be a very tight 'interference' fit. The aperature through the guard (for the blade) is made to an almost perfect 'fit' ....but 'fractionally' smaller (read 'miniscule') .The guard is heated to red ....the metal expands very slightly (making the 'hole' larger) allowing the guard to be positioned on the blade.....as the guard cools ..it effectively shrinks tight to the blade. Over time, corrosion and electrolytic action would eventually "rust weld" them together.

Regards David

stephen wood · 6th February 2009, 08:32 PM

...that seems like a perfect explanation...there is, as you say, an overlay of rust in the area which covers any "join".

Any suggestions as to age?

katana · 6th February 2009, 10:42 PM

Hi Stephen,
are there no markings at all ?
The fullers on the blade seem very 'square' ie the 'walls' look straight with no 'curve'...is that the case ? I don't recall a European blade having this feature (but my knowledge of these is 'limited'

). Hopefully Jim might be able to ID.
The sword looks to be well made so quite likely late 19th C or earlier. Nimcha, are still made today...but my understanding is that early 20th C onwards ...the quality deteriated.

How is the pommel fixed to the tang ?

Regards David

stephen wood · 6th February 2009, 11:05 PM

...it's peened and rounded off very smoothly. It's possible to see the circular end of the tang in the centre of the pommel - which is rather like a brazil nut pommel. No visible markings, signs of old sharpening. What do you mean by "walls"?

Jim McDougall · 6th February 2009, 11:26 PM

This is probably one of the most unusual Moroccan sa'if ('nimchas') I have seen, in its very workmanlike appearance. That is, it is almost a nimcha produced industrially, by the numbers. The entire piece is rather undimensional, and appears to have been produced in a munitions sense. The guard being welded to the blade would make the sword quite unservicable, that is unable to undergo repairs or alterations. These swords were typically hilted locally and indeed using European blades. There is a possibility of this being a theatrical piece I would imagine, as it would present the appearance of a Moroccan sa'if, though without the unmistakeable craftsmanship usually seen in these hilts.

The long ricasso, and square blocked channels or fullers are atypical of any blades I have ever seen, they usually are rounded as the tool is withdrawn from the blade.

A most interesting anomaly, and look forward to hearing if anyone else has seen anything like this.

All best regards,
Jim

6th February 2009, 07:25 PM	#1
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	nimcha with "extended" ricasso The ricasso on this blade strikes me as rather long - has anyone come across one like this before? I assume that it is from the Maghreb, quite old and think that the blade might be European - I don't immediately recognise it as any particular model of sabre. Interestingly, the guard appears to be fixed - welded possibly - to the blade. Would appreciate any suggestions. Attached Images

6th February 2009, 11:05 PM	#5
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...it's peened and rounded off very smoothly. It's possible to see the circular end of the tang in the centre of the pommel - which is rather like a brazil nut pommel. No visible markings, signs of old sharpening. What do you mean by "walls"? Attached Images Last edited by stephen wood; 6th February 2009 at 11:48 PM.

6th February 2009, 08:20 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Stephen, it would very unusual to have the guard 'welded' to the blade. It might be a very tight 'interference' fit. The aperature through the guard (for the blade) is made to an almost perfect 'fit' ....but 'fractionally' smaller (read 'miniscule') .The guard is heated to red ....the metal expands very slightly (making the 'hole' larger) allowing the guard to be positioned on the blade.....as the guard cools ..it effectively shrinks tight to the blade. Over time, corrosion and electrolytic action would eventually "rust weld" them together. Regards David

6th February 2009, 08:32 PM	#3
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...that seems like a perfect explanation...there is, as you say, an overlay of rust in the area which covers any "join". Any suggestions as to age?

6th February 2009, 10:42 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Stephen, are there no markings at all ? The fullers on the blade seem very 'square' ie the 'walls' look straight with no 'curve'...is that the case ? I don't recall a European blade having this feature (but my knowledge of these is 'limited' ). Hopefully Jim might be able to ID. The sword looks to be well made so quite likely late 19th C or earlier. Nimcha, are still made today...but my understanding is that early 20th C onwards ...the quality deteriated. How is the pommel fixed to the tang ? Regards David

6th February 2009, 11:26 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,941	This is probably one of the most unusual Moroccan sa'if ('nimchas') I have seen, in its very workmanlike appearance. That is, it is almost a nimcha produced industrially, by the numbers. The entire piece is rather undimensional, and appears to have been produced in a munitions sense. The guard being welded to the blade would make the sword quite unservicable, that is unable to undergo repairs or alterations. These swords were typically hilted locally and indeed using European blades. There is a possibility of this being a theatrical piece I would imagine, as it would present the appearance of a Moroccan sa'if, though without the unmistakeable craftsmanship usually seen in these hilts. The long ricasso, and square blocked channels or fullers are atypical of any blades I have ever seen, they usually are rounded as the tool is withdrawn from the blade. A most interesting anomaly, and look forward to hearing if anyone else has seen anything like this. All best regards, Jim