"A Passion for Indian Arms" Book Review

rand · 29th October 2016, 03:10 PM

"A Passion for Indian Arms" -Book Review
by Jens Norlunde

The first thing you notice on this long anticipated book is the quality of the paper, you feel the smoothness of its surface when you first touch it. The second thing you notice is that it is a 9"x12" hefty paper back book, this type binding makes the book open slightly better and makes it a little easier to handle when reading. Then you open the book to see high quality print photo's of Indian arms displayed in a page by page sequence with entire weapon, close-ups of important features, measurements and also references with author, book and page numbers shown.

The arms in this book are extremely well researched and arranged in a systematic sequence that makes it easy to follow time periods for objects discussed. There is a depth of understanding evident in the writing that satisfies even the most advanced research. Anyone with an interest in Indian arms or art will enjoy reading this book and become one of those "go to" reference books. There are 100 copies printed so availability will be limited. My perspective for this book is that there will only be as many great libraries on Indian arms as have a copy of this book.

Well done Jens Norlunde and thank you for creating this well crafted important book!

rand milam

Jim McDougall · 29th October 2016, 07:49 PM

Beautifully written review and description of Jens' extremely important reference Rand!
Thank you so much for posting this.

Lee · 29th October 2016, 08:24 PM

I have only had the book for a few days, but I am most pleased to have added it to my library. I already had a number of books on Indian arms, but so very often they remain very general in their descriptions and inadequate in the number and or quality of the illustrations (usually just reflecting publishing standards of the times when they were published rather than author's sloth). Jens' book delights in that he includes multiple detailed images for each item along with a coherent description including details such as dimensions, provenance, references and believable dating. I will also opine that another strength of the book is that of the excellence of the collection it depicts; usually what I will describe mostly as the top end of what was attainable to a very serious modern collector in the last fifty years.

The book starts out with three essays:
How Old is the Katar?
Saadat Khan Bahadur, the First Nawab of Oudh
Royal Katars of Bundi

These are followed by the collection's catalog in four main sections:
Daggers, Katars, Swords and Miscellaneous

Total pages: 368

mariusgmioc · 29th October 2016, 09:02 PM

Excellent reference book but...

... only 100 copies...

ariel · 29th October 2016, 09:40 PM

I promised to let the Forumites know what I thought about the book and gave myself a weekend. Well, I overestimated myself.....

The more I read it, the more I understand how complex it is. I thought ( naively, as I found after an hour of reading) that I knew enough about the topic just to brush on my enjoyment of Indian arms. But in fact I got stumped at the very beginning.

Jens knows so much that the book is far too short to explain every nuance he takes as a given.

This is not a book for a novice. There are so many hints, insights and hidden nuggets of knowledge that a thorough understanding of the material requires years of immersion into the topic, in addition to careful reading, re-assessment of other items, consulting other sources and just sober acceptance of the fact that the author knows infinitely more than the reader like myself can imagine. How does he attribute and date the weapons? How does he know the meaning of decorations? How does he differentiate between Rajput and Mughal tulwars, not even talking about Deccani ones? The short descriptions give just hints, but I have to study a lot to figure it out....

This is not a book to be casually read and enjoyed for the pictures. It ain't no coffee table album. This book needs to be studied, and studied hard.

It is not a good book. It is a great book: it forces you to learn more.
My hat is off to Jens.

rand · 29th October 2016, 11:50 PM

This is one of those rare books on Indian arms and armor that you want to read a few pages at a time and really enjoy. I remember when Elgood's book on Islamic Arms and Armor first came out in 1979 and was $175, it was a covered book at that time. Jen's book is that level of scholarship and beyond, with more pages, more photo's and in color, with page after page of pertinent information that will both educate and entertain. And in 2016, it is 120 BPS, thats a bargain.

When this book go's out of print it will be eye opening to see what its value is the.

Can you tell I like this book? And recommend you get a copy or two soon.

rand

Jim McDougall · 30th October 2016, 02:36 AM

Actually Ariel, you did get the sum of importance of this book, which is actually a catalog of his private collection, and was not intended as a reference book. That is, the very nature of Indian arms, which is indeed wrought with nuance, deep symbolism, and aspects of cultural importance which are held in comprehensive study of the cultures there.

As seen in the post by Jens just this last week, asking for others to join in to discover more on the meanings and symbolism in the floral imagery on tulwars, and for that matter katars as well. The complexity and deeply nuanced nature of these arms has long been too formidable for most collectors and scholars to pursue comprehensively to offer the kind of answers so often asked regarding various weapon forms.

It is a very short run issue as it is as indicated a catalog. However it is of one of the world class collections of Indian arms, specifically tulwars and katars mostly, and these examples will set the benchmark to pace the developing interest in the study of these weapons.

Jens Nordlunde · 31st October 2016, 06:55 PM

There will be a slight delay of delivery, as the seller at first did not want to store all the books, and the first delivery is sold, but the next is on its way, and should be ready for delivery within a week.
Jens

Jerseyman · 1st November 2016, 09:21 PM

Pleased to say that I have my copy, and even happier to say that it is worth every penny. Kudos on the quality of the photography Jens. And as others have already said, better than I ever could, a volume of knowledge that will repay study in depth.

I particularly like Ariel's suggestion - perhaps you might consider writing something along those lines anyway Jens? As a stand-alone essay? I'm sure many of us would be more than interested.

Again, great book - a good job, well done.

Jens Nordlunde · 2nd November 2016, 06:28 PM

Than you very much for the nice reviews, which have surprised me.

When I wanted to make a catalogue, it was meant for a few friends, myself and for the insurance firm, for documentation to prove that the weapos had been in my collection.
Later I was asked to print some for sale as well, and I found that 100 copies would be enough.
Should these 100 copies be sold, I dont know if I will print further copies, but if I do, they will look different, so no one will be in doubt which is the first and which is the second edition.

It was from the start clear to me, that a catalogue should have more than a few lines of text to every weapon, and it was also clear, that showing the whole weapon and the hilt was not enough - details should be shown, as only then the collector/reader can get an idea of the weapon.
You could ask, why this detail and not another one, and I cant give you a very good answer, but the details shown are details, which I find important. To this comes the number of pages, should there have been more details and longer texts, the book would have been very thick, or have to be divided into two volumes.

Ariel and Jersyman have asked for a 'key' to it all. I am afraid that I can't give you a 'key', and even if I could, it may make you more confused. You will have to study further yourself to find it. Like hands on, museums, private collections if possible, reading, miniatures and so on. I am sure you will see the light on the way of your journy, and should it not, you will have learned a lot more about Indian weapons and Indian history.

Jens

Richard Furrer · 3rd November 2016, 03:19 AM

I have been away for bit and very happy to hear of this publication.

Jens,
I look forward to my copy. Do you suggest any other books?
Any other titles I may have missed of late?

Ric

Jens Nordlunde · 3rd November 2016, 05:42 PM

Hi Ric,

I hope you will like the book when you get it, as it has taken me a very long time to make it.

I dont know of any new books, although I am sure there must be some. I have of lately slowed down buying weapons and books, due to space problems, so we are close to the point where we have to say one book/weapon bought one of the old ones have to go. It is a strange situation to be in, and I dont like it much, but like Jonathan Barrett says - a collector never stops collecting. Clever words I would say.

Jens Nordlunde · 6th November 2016, 07:19 PM

One sword was missing in my catalogue, but thanks to the helf of Lee you can find it here http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/No%2051.pdf
Thank you Lee for your help.
Jens

mariusgmioc · 6th November 2016, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

One sword was missing in my catalogue, but thanks to the helf of Lee you can find it here http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/No%2051.pdf
Thank you Lee for your help.
Jens

Another reason for a second edition!

That's a magnificent sword. Thank you Jens for sharing it with us.

But isn't the term "Firangi" refering to an Indian made sword with a European blade?!

Jens Nordlunde · 6th November 2016, 10:05 PM

Hi Marius:-),

Yes it most certainly is, but along the line the name got stuck, even if the blades were of Indian manufacture like this one. If you choose you can also call it something else.
What I would like to point out is, the way the hilt has been decorated. You should be aware of, that many old hilts were redecorated. Thick gold recoration removed, and a koftgari decoration added. Either to get the gold, or due to new fashion. See pp. 77-78 in the catalogue.

Jim McDougall · 6th November 2016, 10:09 PM

Well noted Marius, technically the term 'firangi' is indicative of an other than Indian blade on one of these swords, actually known in Indian dialects as 'khanda' . To carry it further, these type hilts became known as 'Hindu basket hilts' post European contact and evolved presumably influenced by European style from the old and simpler hilt 'khanda'.

The term firangi does typically allude to a European blade, however, in its more broad use as 'foreign' can refer to any blade from foreign source outside India, including Persia, Middle East etc.

The firangi term has become a colloquialism for these swords among collectors in the broader sense as well, beyond these technicalities.

Sorry Jens, we crossed posts, just saw yours

and I had not thought of the decoration inclusion as well.

mariusgmioc · 7th November 2016, 10:57 AM

Thank you Jens and Jim for your explanations!

Well, in the absence of a more accurate term, I can see the logic behind the generalisation of the Firangi term for all swords, with foreign blade or not, displaying a certain shape and characteristics. Yes, maybe the sword can also be called a Khanda, but then the term "Khanda" has become associated with the broader blades with rounded or obtuse angled tip which are iconic for the Sikh... if I am correct.

As with regards of the more recent decoration, I noticed this on many Indian blades. This practice is continued even today and quite often one can find 17 or early 18 century wootz pieces with perfectly intact koftgari decoration, that was added much more recently to increase their appeal.

However, as long as the koftgari is of quality and well executed, I consider this to be a genuine enhancement to the blade since it is part of its cultural heritage and it was traditionally practiced in the past as it is practiced now.

Jens Nordlunde · 7th November 2016, 03:43 PM

Marius,
In most cases all of the old decoration has been removed, and a new decoration added. You will then have to judge how old the weapon is, and if the decoration is of the same age.
There are, however, cases where rests of the old decoration is still intact in small parts, and here it is easy to see that a new decoratin has been added - see catalogue pp. 77-78.

Likhari · 20th December 2017, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

One sword was missing in my catalogue, but thanks to the helf of Lee you can find it here http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/No%2051.pdf
Thank you Lee for your help.
Jens

Jens where did you get the notion that those brass filled holes have talismanic significance ?

This is obviously a reused Patissa blade and those holes would house rivets to hold the blade and hilt together as in the following example:

Jens Nordlunde · 21st December 2017, 10:20 PM

The sword shown is not a pattisa blade, or it would have been changed quite a lot.
It is generally accepted that these brass/gold filled holes are of talismanic significance.
One other thing, which I can mention is, that these filled 'holes' are far bigger than the holes for rivets.
You may have a theory about these holes, but I stick to what I have written.

Likhari · 22nd December 2017, 01:38 AM

Thanks for the response Jens.

Could you kindly provide a reference that supports your statement. I have several blades with similar brass or silver filled holes and would be interested in learning more about an alternative view on why they exist.

Jens Nordlunde · 22nd December 2017, 05:21 PM

I am sorry but I dont have the time to find quotes on this subject. So I am afraid you will have to find them yourself, which should not be too difficult.
Have a nice Christmas.

Jens Nordlunde · 9th November 2016, 03:16 PM

I was looking at the katar (cat. pp. 117-118) and thought it may be hard to see the birds between the cross bars, so I have taken sosme extra pictures showing the birds on the inside of the side guard.

mariusgmioc · 10th November 2016, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I was looking at the katar (cat. pp. 117-118) and thought it may be hard to see the birds between the cross bars, so I have taken sosme extra pictures showing the birds on the inside of the side guard.

Thank you Jens for sharing it with us!

Now, this is quite surely the original koftgari. A lovely piece!

Jens Nordlunde · 13th December 2016, 09:45 PM

Iskender,
Thank you very much for your post, I tried to send you a PM, but unfortunately without any luck.
Jens

Jens Nordlunde · 7th January 2017, 10:37 PM

I have had a PM mail from someone, I dont know if he wants me to publish his name, but he has told me that the text on the sword shown on page 341 in the catalogue is wrong.
It should read 'XX CIVIDAL D BELUN XX'. Which means 'The City of Belluno'. Belluno is in south Tirol, in the Dolomits in north Italy. At the time this part of Italy was under the control of Venice.
The town was famed for sword smiths like Andrea Ferrara and Pietro Formicano, and to this comes that they in the Domomits have/had a lot of iron mines.

I am sorry for the error, but I thought my reading of the worn stamp was right - till I was corrected.

29th October 2016, 03:10 PM	#1
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	"A Passion for Indian Arms" Book Review "A Passion for Indian Arms" -Book Review by Jens Norlunde The first thing you notice on this long anticipated book is the quality of the paper, you feel the smoothness of its surface when you first touch it. The second thing you notice is that it is a 9"x12" hefty paper back book, this type binding makes the book open slightly better and makes it a little easier to handle when reading. Then you open the book to see high quality print photo's of Indian arms displayed in a page by page sequence with entire weapon, close-ups of important features, measurements and also references with author, book and page numbers shown. The arms in this book are extremely well researched and arranged in a systematic sequence that makes it easy to follow time periods for objects discussed. There is a depth of understanding evident in the writing that satisfies even the most advanced research. Anyone with an interest in Indian arms or art will enjoy reading this book and become one of those "go to" reference books. There are 100 copies printed so availability will be limited. My perspective for this book is that there will only be as many great libraries on Indian arms as have a copy of this book. Well done Jens Norlunde and thank you for creating this well crafted important book! rand milam

29th October 2016, 08:24 PM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	A preliminary view - recommended I have only had the book for a few days, but I am most pleased to have added it to my library. I already had a number of books on Indian arms, but so very often they remain very general in their descriptions and inadequate in the number and or quality of the illustrations (usually just reflecting publishing standards of the times when they were published rather than author's sloth). Jens' book delights in that he includes multiple detailed images for each item along with a coherent description including details such as dimensions, provenance, references and believable dating. I will also opine that another strength of the book is that of the excellence of the collection it depicts; usually what I will describe mostly as the top end of what was attainable to a very serious modern collector in the last fifty years. The book starts out with three essays: How Old is the Katar? Saadat Khan Bahadur, the First Nawab of Oudh Royal Katars of Bundi These are followed by the collection's catalog in four main sections: Daggers, Katars, Swords and Miscellaneous Total pages: 368

29th October 2016, 09:40 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I promised to let the Forumites know what I thought about the book and gave myself a weekend. Well, I overestimated myself..... The more I read it, the more I understand how complex it is. I thought ( naively, as I found after an hour of reading) that I knew enough about the topic just to brush on my enjoyment of Indian arms. But in fact I got stumped at the very beginning. Jens knows so much that the book is far too short to explain every nuance he takes as a given. This is not a book for a novice. There are so many hints, insights and hidden nuggets of knowledge that a thorough understanding of the material requires years of immersion into the topic, in addition to careful reading, re-assessment of other items, consulting other sources and just sober acceptance of the fact that the author knows infinitely more than the reader like myself can imagine. How does he attribute and date the weapons? How does he know the meaning of decorations? How does he differentiate between Rajput and Mughal tulwars, not even talking about Deccani ones? The short descriptions give just hints, but I have to study a lot to figure it out.... This is not a book to be casually read and enjoyed for the pictures. It ain't no coffee table album. This book needs to be studied, and studied hard. It is not a good book. It is a great book: it forces you to learn more. My hat is off to Jens. Last edited by ariel; 30th October 2016 at 04:28 PM.

29th October 2016, 11:50 PM	#6
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Passion for Indian Arms This is one of those rare books on Indian arms and armor that you want to read a few pages at a time and really enjoy. I remember when Elgood's book on Islamic Arms and Armor first came out in 1979 and was $175, it was a covered book at that time. Jen's book is that level of scholarship and beyond, with more pages, more photo's and in color, with page after page of pertinent information that will both educate and entertain. And in 2016, it is 120 BPS, thats a bargain. When this book go's out of print it will be eye opening to see what its value is the. Can you tell I like this book? And recommend you get a copy or two soon. rand

7th November 2016, 10:57 AM	#17
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Thank you Jens and Jim for your explanations! Well, in the absence of a more accurate term, I can see the logic behind the generalisation of the Firangi term for all swords, with foreign blade or not, displaying a certain shape and characteristics. Yes, maybe the sword can also be called a Khanda, but then the term "Khanda" has become associated with the broader blades with rounded or obtuse angled tip which are iconic for the Sikh... if I am correct. As with regards of the more recent decoration, I noticed this on many Indian blades. This practice is continued even today and quite often one can find 17 or early 18 century wootz pieces with perfectly intact koftgari decoration, that was added much more recently to increase their appeal. However, as long as the koftgari is of quality and well executed, I consider this to be a genuine enhancement to the blade since it is part of its cultural heritage and it was traditionally practiced in the past as it is practiced now. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 7th November 2016 at 11:13 AM.

29th October 2016, 07:49 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Beautifully written review and description of Jens' extremely important reference Rand! Thank you so much for posting this.

29th October 2016, 09:02 PM	#4
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	Excellent reference book but... ... only 100 copies...

30th October 2016, 02:36 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Actually Ariel, you did get the sum of importance of this book, which is actually a catalog of his private collection, and was not intended as a reference book. That is, the very nature of Indian arms, which is indeed wrought with nuance, deep symbolism, and aspects of cultural importance which are held in comprehensive study of the cultures there. As seen in the post by Jens just this last week, asking for others to join in to discover more on the meanings and symbolism in the floral imagery on tulwars, and for that matter katars as well. The complexity and deeply nuanced nature of these arms has long been too formidable for most collectors and scholars to pursue comprehensively to offer the kind of answers so often asked regarding various weapon forms. It is a very short run issue as it is as indicated a catalog. However it is of one of the world class collections of Indian arms, specifically tulwars and katars mostly, and these examples will set the benchmark to pace the developing interest in the study of these weapons.

31st October 2016, 06:55 PM	#8
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	There will be a slight delay of delivery, as the seller at first did not want to store all the books, and the first delivery is sold, but the next is on its way, and should be ready for delivery within a week. Jens

1st November 2016, 09:21 PM	#9
Jerseyman Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 97	Pleased to say that I have my copy, and even happier to say that it is worth every penny. Kudos on the quality of the photography Jens. And as others have already said, better than I ever could, a volume of knowledge that will repay study in depth. I particularly like Ariel's suggestion - perhaps you might consider writing something along those lines anyway Jens? As a stand-alone essay? I'm sure many of us would be more than interested. Again, great book - a good job, well done.

2nd November 2016, 06:28 PM	#10
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Than you very much for the nice reviews, which have surprised me. When I wanted to make a catalogue, it was meant for a few friends, myself and for the insurance firm, for documentation to prove that the weapos had been in my collection. Later I was asked to print some for sale as well, and I found that 100 copies would be enough. Should these 100 copies be sold, I dont know if I will print further copies, but if I do, they will look different, so no one will be in doubt which is the first and which is the second edition. It was from the start clear to me, that a catalogue should have more than a few lines of text to every weapon, and it was also clear, that showing the whole weapon and the hilt was not enough - details should be shown, as only then the collector/reader can get an idea of the weapon. You could ask, why this detail and not another one, and I cant give you a very good answer, but the details shown are details, which I find important. To this comes the number of pages, should there have been more details and longer texts, the book would have been very thick, or have to be divided into two volumes. Ariel and Jersyman have asked for a 'key' to it all. I am afraid that I can't give you a 'key', and even if I could, it may make you more confused. You will have to study further yourself to find it. Like hands on, museums, private collections if possible, reading, miniatures and so on. I am sure you will see the light on the way of your journy, and should it not, you will have learned a lot more about Indian weapons and Indian history. Jens

3rd November 2016, 03:19 AM	#11
Richard Furrer Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin Posts: 163	I have been away for bit and very happy to hear of this publication. Jens, I look forward to my copy. Do you suggest any other books? Any other titles I may have missed of late? Ric

3rd November 2016, 05:42 PM	#12
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Ric, I hope you will like the book when you get it, as it has taken me a very long time to make it. I dont know of any new books, although I am sure there must be some. I have of lately slowed down buying weapons and books, due to space problems, so we are close to the point where we have to say one book/weapon bought one of the old ones have to go. It is a strange situation to be in, and I dont like it much, but like Jonathan Barrett says - a collector never stops collecting. Clever words I would say.

6th November 2016, 07:19 PM	#13
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	One sword was missing in my catalogue, but thanks to the helf of Lee you can find it here http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/No%2051.pdf Thank you Lee for your help. Jens

6th November 2016, 10:05 PM	#15
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Marius:-), Yes it most certainly is, but along the line the name got stuck, even if the blades were of Indian manufacture like this one. If you choose you can also call it something else. What I would like to point out is, the way the hilt has been decorated. You should be aware of, that many old hilts were redecorated. Thick gold recoration removed, and a koftgari decoration added. Either to get the gold, or due to new fashion. See pp. 77-78 in the catalogue.

6th November 2016, 10:09 PM	#16
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Well noted Marius, technically the term 'firangi' is indicative of an other than Indian blade on one of these swords, actually known in Indian dialects as 'khanda' . To carry it further, these type hilts became known as 'Hindu basket hilts' post European contact and evolved presumably influenced by European style from the old and simpler hilt 'khanda'. The term firangi does typically allude to a European blade, however, in its more broad use as 'foreign' can refer to any blade from foreign source outside India, including Persia, Middle East etc. The firangi term has become a colloquialism for these swords among collectors in the broader sense as well, beyond these technicalities. Sorry Jens, we crossed posts, just saw yours and I had not thought of the decoration inclusion as well.

7th November 2016, 03:43 PM	#18
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Marius, In most cases all of the old decoration has been removed, and a new decoration added. You will then have to judge how old the weapon is, and if the decoration is of the same age. There are, however, cases where rests of the old decoration is still intact in small parts, and here it is easy to see that a new decoratin has been added - see catalogue pp. 77-78.

21st December 2017, 10:20 PM	#20
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	The sword shown is not a pattisa blade, or it would have been changed quite a lot. It is generally accepted that these brass/gold filled holes are of talismanic significance. One other thing, which I can mention is, that these filled 'holes' are far bigger than the holes for rivets. You may have a theory about these holes, but I stick to what I have written.

22nd December 2017, 01:38 AM	#21
Likhari Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: USA Posts: 34	Thanks for the response Jens. Could you kindly provide a reference that supports your statement. I have several blades with similar brass or silver filled holes and would be interested in learning more about an alternative view on why they exist. Attached Images

22nd December 2017, 05:21 PM	#22
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I am sorry but I dont have the time to find quotes on this subject. So I am afraid you will have to find them yourself, which should not be too difficult. Have a nice Christmas.

9th November 2016, 03:16 PM	#23
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I was looking at the katar (cat. pp. 117-118) and thought it may be hard to see the birds between the cross bars, so I have taken sosme extra pictures showing the birds on the inside of the side guard. Attached Images

13th December 2016, 09:45 PM	#25
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Iskender, Thank you very much for your post, I tried to send you a PM, but unfortunately without any luck. Jens

7th January 2017, 10:37 PM	#26
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I have had a PM mail from someone, I dont know if he wants me to publish his name, but he has told me that the text on the sword shown on page 341 in the catalogue is wrong. It should read 'XX CIVIDAL D BELUN XX'. Which means 'The City of Belluno'. Belluno is in south Tirol, in the Dolomits in north Italy. At the time this part of Italy was under the control of Venice. The town was famed for sword smiths like Andrea Ferrara and Pietro Formicano, and to this comes that they in the Domomits have/had a lot of iron mines. I am sorry for the error, but I thought my reading of the worn stamp was right - till I was corrected.