Firangi or Patissa (?) for comment.

Rumpel · 4th August 2016, 05:35 PM

Just bought this from a market in my lunch break...

No visible marks on the blade, which flares out towards the tip (to a sharp point). Would this be considered a firangi or a patissa or what? Any ideas on date/region much appreciated, as always.

Jim McDougall · 4th August 2016, 11:43 PM

Some lunch break!!!

Actually the 'name game' can be very frustrating with Indian weapons, and many other factors contribute to that frustration.

To clarify, 'firangi' is a generally applied term in India referring to a blade 'foreign', but not specified...usually regarded as European. The hilts often have various terms, and 'khanda' is a general term for sword (unspecified type) in Indian dialects.
However it is typically held as the Indian sword which became the basis for the Hindu basket hilt in the late 16th century.

The 'pattisa' was a long very flexible blade in varying hilts which had long seatings but no blade reinforcements, and most apparent was the spatulate or spoon shape point (Pant, 1980, p.66). This sword would have no relation to that type.

This well worn and clearly reworked old khanda (Hindu basket hilt), has had an also reworked old blade refitted.

The angular shape of the blade point may be associated with those with spear point, almost lozenge shape in early forms (Sk. 'shulagra=spear shaped) . Pant (1980, p.97) shows silhouettes of these types from iconographic sources; one from Ajanta (6th c.) and others from Harshanath temple 11th c. Rajasthan, and from Nair temples in Tami Nadu 17th c.

Clearly neither hilt nor blade age wise with this sword would meet those early times, however it would seem as often the case, something like this might be a commemorative item intended votively in such temples, as an optimistic possibility.

Safely it might be termed an Indian khanda (the basket hilts were still termed that) with retro styled angular point blade possibly for votive temple purposes. Likely from early(?) 20th c. using older components.

In the Hindu Faith warriors were of course highly honored and the votive presence of their weapons, whether actual or representative, were often present in temples and other religious contexts.

Interesting item, and always great to discuss Indian arms of all kinds!

Rumpel · 5th August 2016, 12:42 PM

Jim,

Many thanks, once again, for the valuable and thoughtful analysis. Much appreciated.

kronckew · 5th August 2016, 04:03 PM

blade reminds me of another 'foreign' sword type used by the ayutthaya royals:

this one has a bit more ornate fittings, but underneath the bling...

Jim McDougall · 5th August 2016, 09:21 PM

Glad to be of help Rumpel! Its fascinating to see these kinds of examples an sort of 'do the math' investigatively to see if a reasonable possibility can be reached.

Wayne, great example, and most interesting to see the 'dha' gestalt!

Rumpel · 6th September 2016, 06:57 PM

Reviving this in light of the fascinating Sri Lanka thread, should we interpret this type of blade as a South Indian/Sri Lankan form?

4th August 2016, 05:35 PM	#1
Rumpel Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 63	Firangi or Patissa (?) for comment. Just bought this from a market in my lunch break... No visible marks on the blade, which flares out towards the tip (to a sharp point). Would this be considered a firangi or a patissa or what? Any ideas on date/region much appreciated, as always. Attached Images

5th August 2016, 04:03 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	blade reminds me of another 'foreign' sword type used by the ayutthaya royals: this one has a bit more ornate fittings, but underneath the bling... Attached Images

6th September 2016, 06:57 PM	#6
Rumpel Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 63	Reviving this in light of the fascinating Sri Lanka thread, should we interpret this type of blade as a South Indian/Sri Lankan form? Attached Images

4th August 2016, 11:43 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Some lunch break!!! Actually the 'name game' can be very frustrating with Indian weapons, and many other factors contribute to that frustration. To clarify, 'firangi' is a generally applied term in India referring to a blade 'foreign', but not specified...usually regarded as European. The hilts often have various terms, and 'khanda' is a general term for sword (unspecified type) in Indian dialects. However it is typically held as the Indian sword which became the basis for the Hindu basket hilt in the late 16th century. The 'pattisa' was a long very flexible blade in varying hilts which had long seatings but no blade reinforcements, and most apparent was the spatulate or spoon shape point (Pant, 1980, p.66). This sword would have no relation to that type. This well worn and clearly reworked old khanda (Hindu basket hilt), has had an also reworked old blade refitted. The angular shape of the blade point may be associated with those with spear point, almost lozenge shape in early forms (Sk. 'shulagra=spear shaped) . Pant (1980, p.97) shows silhouettes of these types from iconographic sources; one from Ajanta (6th c.) and others from Harshanath temple 11th c. Rajasthan, and from Nair temples in Tami Nadu 17th c. Clearly neither hilt nor blade age wise with this sword would meet those early times, however it would seem as often the case, something like this might be a commemorative item intended votively in such temples, as an optimistic possibility. Safely it might be termed an Indian khanda (the basket hilts were still termed that) with retro styled angular point blade possibly for votive temple purposes. Likely from early(?) 20th c. using older components. In the Hindu Faith warriors were of course highly honored and the votive presence of their weapons, whether actual or representative, were often present in temples and other religious contexts. Interesting item, and always great to discuss Indian arms of all kinds!

5th August 2016, 12:42 PM	#3
Rumpel Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 63	Jim, Many thanks, once again, for the valuable and thoughtful analysis. Much appreciated.

5th August 2016, 09:21 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Glad to be of help Rumpel! Its fascinating to see these kinds of examples an sort of 'do the math' investigatively to see if a reasonable possibility can be reached. Wayne, great example, and most interesting to see the 'dha' gestalt!