variation of tok chu

[keriswarisanpattani]

just for sharing. some said variation of keris tok chu

[A. G. Maisey]

This is an immediate reaction to the top keris. I'm not posting it as fuel for any sort of ongoing discussion on the forms and merits of various types of keris.

To my eye, this top keris looks very much like somebody had seen an early East Javanese --- read "Majapahit" --- keris only once and only briefly, and then tried to reproduce it --- or maybe had it described to him.

This keris has the features of a Mojo keris, but as they would be described, not as they are executed in the original.

I find this type of thing quite interesting, just as I find the similarity of the Panataran keris to Bugis keris quite interesting. It helps to track dispersion.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

To my eye, this top keris looks very much like somebody had seen an early East Javanese --- read "Majapahit" --- keris only once and only briefly, and then tried to reproduce it --- or maybe had it described to him.

This keris has the features of a Mojo keris, but as they would be described, not as they are executed in the original.

Hello Alan,
I have some difficulties to see a similarity between this kris and a Majapahit kris as described in reference books or (rarely) shown on pictures.
Unless this subject was already raised in an earlier post, can you show us some pictures of what you consider as representative Mojo krisses or description of their specific features?
Thanks and regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, the keris in this thread is not similar to Majapahit.

I did not say it was.

What I said was this:-

"To my eye, this top keris looks very much like somebody had seen an early East Javanese --- read "Majapahit" --- keris only once and only briefly, and then tried to reproduce it --- or maybe had it described to him.

This keris has the features of a Mojo keris, but as they would be described, not as they are executed in the original."

Imagine:- you've never seen a Mojo blade, but you get a quick look at one, or somebody who has seen one, but doesn't know a hell of a lot about keris has seen one, and then they describe it to you:-

longish, slim, elegant, waved gonjo, tall, narrow, upright blumbangan, tight greneng, two grooves starting at the blade base, kruwingan, another little greneng under the kembang kacang

then you go away and try to make it.

What you finish up with is this.

Nothing like a Mojo blade, but the description fits.

That's what I find interesting.

[Jean]

Hello Alan,
Thank you for the clarification. My point was that this blade is not particularly slim nor tall nor narrow, hence my question....
Best regards

[David]

Originally Posted by keriswarisanpattani

just for sharing. some said variation of keris tok chu

I see 3 different keris in you post. Are you suggesting these were all made by the pandai Tok Chu?

[keriswarisanpattani]

Originally Posted by David

I see 3 different kerns in you post. Are you suggesting these were all made by the pandai Tok Chu?

hi david,

all 3 keris belong to a senior collector in kelantan. all 3 are the variations of keris tok chu (what have been told to me and opinions from other senior collecters as well).

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by keriswarisanpattani

hi david,

all 3 keris belong to a senior collector in kelantan. all 3 are the variations of keris tok chu (what have been told to me and opinions from other senior collecters as well).

Hullo everybody,

Just a passing comment:
The first keris doesn't look to me to be Tok Chu. I suppose it all depends on how liberally one takes the term 'variantions'. I'd tend to look on it as more of a Saras variation
Perhaps one should ask someone like Cikgu Nasir for an opinion.

Best,

[BluErf]

Hello to all!

Alan - your comment is very interesting, because it resonates with the views of some native Kelantan keris collectors that keris makers in Northen Malay Peninsula trace their pedigree to Javanese pandai keris. There is even a "Kampung Java" in Kelantan (though I'd admit that this may not be definitive evidence of anything, because in Singapore, there is also a place named "Kampung Java", much like one can find Chinatown anywhere in the world). Further, we don't see much really old kerises in N. Malay Peninsula. It seems that kerises don't go back more than 300-400 years, which would seem to coincide with the end period of Hindu-Buddhist kingdoms in Java.

I realize what I'm saying can not be supported by hard evidence, and is backed mainly by opinions of more senior keris collectors. But I'm just sharing it for what it is worth.


Specifically to the first keris in this post, I thought it would probably just be called a "carita" in the N. Malay context. The "Tok Chu" classification is really nebulous, and no one can definitively say what it covers. The main characteristic of "Tok Chu" kerises seem to be that they are really broad (I would even describe some as having "squat" proportions), have a massive feel, and use good quality steel with very tight grains.

I also thought that the greneng work in this keris reminds me of the sort found on the Terengganu keris unduk-unduk form. Is this a more recent greneng form compared to the more commonly seen "open" greneng form? I'm not sure. I have a keris which was found in a sheath that looked like Terengganu in origin, but was very large, and somewhat different. The keris was also very large, which seems to run against the general rule that Terengganu kerises are of a more "polite" size, and more refined. Could the keris (and by extension of its similarity to this keris posted here) be from certain regions in the Terengganu/Kelantan/Pattani area?

Apologies for raising more questions than giving answers. I realize that I don't really have any answer to anything... After years of collecting, I feel with each passing year that I know less and less about the keris than I thought I did.

[BluErf]

Keris I was talking about. Note the striking similarities in the gandik area.