Posted on request: ivory,silver & twistcore!

Maurice · 10th April 2010, 11:23 PM

This nice kris, which I got from a friendcollector, I am posting on request by a forum member for discussion.
Any comments (concerning this kris!) are welcome.

BTW there are traces there were 2 clamps in the past.

Maurice

Battara · 11th April 2010, 07:04 AM

I will take a stab at this. This is a beautiful sundang.

Although it looks Moro in some respects, I think it is perhaps more Indonesian. Silver bands on the hilt are done in repousse - something that Moros do not traditionally do. As hilt shapes go, this one does not have the usual peninsular Malaysian sundang hilt profile. Yet the pommel looks more like an early Moro form (with the small tail broken off).

The twistcore blade is almost the entire blade, not just the middle like in early Moro pieces traditionally. Also the front part looks almost Maguindanao, but Moro blades do not have the elephant also in the back part of the ganga. This is strange even for a peninsular Malaysian sundang. In addition to this oddity, the blade is not etched like the usual Malaysian method.

I will reflect more on this piece and if anything comes to me I will post. Others may see things which I miss and I would be grateful for their feedback.

Maurice · 11th April 2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I will take a stab at this. This is a beautiful sundang.

Although it looks Moro in some respects, I think it is perhaps more Indonesian. Silver bands on the hilt are done in repousse - something that Moros do not traditionally do. As hilt shapes go, this one does not have the usual peninsular Malaysian sundang hilt profile. Yet the pommel looks more like an early Moro form (with the small tail broken off).

The twistcore blade is almost the entire blade, not just the middle like in early Moro pieces traditionally. Also the front part looks almost Maguindanao, but Moro blades do not have the elephant also in the back part of the ganga. This is strange even for a peninsular Malaysian sundang. In addition to this oddity, the blade is not etched like the usual Malaysian method.

I will reflect more on this piece and if anything comes to me I will post. Others may see things which I miss and I would be grateful for their feedback.

Thanks for your feedback.
I am looking forward what others got to say about this one. Moro or sundang?
I guess it is tougher without scabbard.
By the way, the twistcore is definately not the entire blade. It is over the whole length of the blade, but only in the centre. A distance from twistcore and edge is free and not "twisted". However near the gangya the twistcore is becoming wider till the elephants at the gangya.
I attached an image to show better the two elephants.

Gavin Nugent · 11th April 2010, 12:14 PM

Hi Maurice,

What ever the origins this is certainly a very very very rare example and I would suspect very very very desirable, to find two Elephants and twistcore, silver and ivory is something I would say could be unique.

Thank you for Sharing.

Gav

Maurice · 11th April 2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi Maurice,

What ever the origins this is certainly a very very very rare example and I would suspect very very very desirable, to find two Elephants and twistcore, silver and ivory is something I would say could be unique.

Thank you for Sharing.

Gav

LOL, yes Gav, you are right!
Thank you very much!
Besides that it is very attractive, it is always a good thing to try to nail down the origin.

Morris ;-)

David · 11th April 2010, 06:41 PM

Well Maurice, you know where i stand on this since i was the one to encourage you post it here. José has picked up on some of the same things that swing me towards an Indonesian Sundang, namely the reprousse work which doesn't look Moro to me and the double kembang kacang which can be found on an Indonesian Dhapur. I will be interested to see what other opinions come in.
It certainly is an oddity though and a really nice find.

10th April 2010, 11:23 PM	#1
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	Posted on request: ivory,silver & twistcore! This nice kris, which I got from a friendcollector, I am posting on request by a forum member for discussion. Any comments (concerning this kris!) are welcome. BTW there are traces there were 2 clamps in the past. Maurice Attached Images

11th April 2010, 12:14 PM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	NICE Hi Maurice, What ever the origins this is certainly a very very very rare example and I would suspect very very very desirable, to find two Elephants and twistcore, silver and ivory is something I would say could be unique. Thank you for Sharing. Gav

11th April 2010, 07:04 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	I will take a stab at this. This is a beautiful sundang. Although it looks Moro in some respects, I think it is perhaps more Indonesian. Silver bands on the hilt are done in repousse - something that Moros do not traditionally do. As hilt shapes go, this one does not have the usual peninsular Malaysian sundang hilt profile. Yet the pommel looks more like an early Moro form (with the small tail broken off). The twistcore blade is almost the entire blade, not just the middle like in early Moro pieces traditionally. Also the front part looks almost Maguindanao, but Moro blades do not have the elephant also in the back part of the ganga. This is strange even for a peninsular Malaysian sundang. In addition to this oddity, the blade is not etched like the usual Malaysian method. I will reflect more on this piece and if anything comes to me I will post. Others may see things which I miss and I would be grateful for their feedback.

11th April 2010, 06:41 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Well Maurice, you know where i stand on this since i was the one to encourage you post it here. José has picked up on some of the same things that swing me towards an Indonesian Sundang, namely the reprousse work which doesn't look Moro to me and the double kembang kacang which can be found on an Indonesian Dhapur. I will be interested to see what other opinions come in. It certainly is an oddity though and a really nice find.