Scale armor

[pbleed]

Dear Friends,
With a team of students I am researching a scale armor "mantle" in the collection of the Nebraska State Historical Society. This armor has a history that goes back to 1870, but is composed of iron scales that are at least very similar to the archaeological scales from New Mexico described by LaRocca in Gladius in 1990. LaRocca made a case in that paper that they reflect an early phase of the Spanaish entrada into North America. The Nebraska armor retains it cloth base.
In addition to the possibility that it is early Spanish in origin, I am trying to evalaute the possibility that this armor was an element of either theatrical or Fraternal costumery that somehow got to the frontier.
And so my request - plea - for help
1. I will welcome references to SCALE (not mail or brigantine) armor in the New World.
2. Is there available literature on pre-Civil War (US, that is) armor costumry. We have been helped to find a fair amount of late 19th century material (Oh the Walkaries!), but I would like to know was was being worn in opera and the lodges before 1870.

I will welcome any help, guidance or advice.

Peter Bleed

[pbleed]

Respected Friends,
There have been no takers on this challenge. May I try ti attach a picture. What is this and how it it get to the Plains?
Peter

[ward]

An image of the reverse of the mantle and a closeup of both sides of a detached scale would be very helpful.

Ward

[A Senefelder]

I agree with Ward, pics of the back would be of assistance. If this is a theatrical piece it is of high quality. The scales have been curved to i'm guessing about 3-4 degrees which is consistant with some later historical examples i've seen ( the one that comes to mind is a 17th century Polish scale cuirass in a small art museum in Baltimore ). This curvature is to increase the strength of the scales via introducing the geometry of the curve, a step that would have been uneccessary for a theatrical piece as play goers would never have noticed nor would likely have cared.

The Spanish were the most heavily armoured Europeans in the Americas so its certainly not out of the realm of possibility for a Spanish attributation if in fact the piece is legitimate. A friend of my fathers in New Mexico was an avid collector of colonial Spanish arms and armour. He had a wide range of contacts in the southwest and aquired most of his pieces from the individuals who found them. If I recall correctly he had portions of what he believed was a scale horse barding found in the southwest as part of his collection. I will ask my father if my recollection of this is correct.

[pbleed]

Friends,
Thank you very much for the replies and the encouragement. I will attach a "rear view" of the mantle. It shows the 'inside' of the armor and the fabric that is the core of the armor. The stitches you see run from image left to right and they attach tapes to which are rivetted the ferrous scales. There MAY have been another layer of cloth on this surface, but if it was ever present it is not represented only by the remant in what you see at the upper right side.
Thank you for looking and please forgive me if Ido not knowing how to orient you on this object.
Peter

[pbleed]

Assuming you are still willing to look deeper into this armor...
Let let me show you the under side of the scales of this armor. This image is taken from the 'front' of the armor. The scales are lifted up. You can see the fabric base. Also you see see how each scale isdouble rivetted to a doulbe folded tape of herring bone twill.
Please also note that there is a slot-headed screw - applied THRU the exposed row of scales - that attaches a leather strap.
I am struck at how regular th scales are. What do you see?
Peter

[A Senefelder]

Based on the method of construction, including the curving of the scales themselves, as well as the condition I would be inclined to think it possible that this piece is original colonial armour of the 16th or 17th century. It is built as a piece of period armour would be built ( as I would and have built armour including work with scales ) rather than a theater prop. The condition of the fabric while very good doesn't disqualify it as original, there are examples of a variety of textile armour, or at least armour related ( liners, or outter fabric shells for things like brigandine ) in as good or better condition than this piece. You said the history dates back to the 1870's. If its not prying how much of the provenance can you reveal?

[Dmitry]

Without pretending to know anything about this type of armor, I will just present the following excerpt from the Metropolitan Museum of Art publication.
On a purely observational level, the armor in question looks ...old.
You may wan to contact the Met A&A curatorial staff, perhaps they will help you in further research. If this piece is indeed authentic Spanish scale armor from the 1500s-1600s, it is indeed unique and important.

[laEspadaAncha]

Interestingly, the ruler in the first pic (in the second post) seems to indicate a size similar to if not congruent with the measurement (2.5x4 cm) provided in the Met's catalog.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Interestingly, the ruler in the first pic (in the second post) seems to indicate a size similar to if not congruent with the measurement (2.5x4 cm) provided in the Met's catalog.

Hi Chris,
You definitely have the eagle eye thing goin on there! This really is compelling in comparing these shield type plates as having apparantly been in use in the Spanish colonial sphere from much earlier period. There have been a number of early armour elements found in several locations beyond this as well. I believe the plates found in New Mexico were in northern regions, and as this mantle was discovered in west Texas it certainly would suggest that these were around. It is interesting that the items in the LaRocca article were disconnected pieces found in a grouping in context, while this mantle was discovered intact.
Definitely a great connection!

All the best,
Jim

[A Senefelder]

The shaping of the Met scales and those in the mantle are awefully similar. The edges along the top and down the sides to the point where the plates begin to taper in exhibit the same slight rolled/raised edge on both sets of plates and slight 3-5 degree curvature. Constructionally, based of course purely on looking at photos they seem nearly identicle.

[Jim McDougall]

I have followed this thread and the subject mantle for quite some time, and read through LaRocca & Rogers (1999) which clearly notes that the metal shield like scales discovered in New Mexico must be from European manufacture, and the article suggests that these seem to be evidence that this style of overlapping scales must have existed in remote areas of Europe far longer than presumed. While there are no specific records of this type of armor extant in inventories or other documentation, it is important to consider that the term for body armour, 'cota de malle' was far more broadly applied than commonly realized. The term has been known to have been used somewhat colloquially with respect to various forms from mail of chain link to cuera (leather jackets) and to varied forms of brigandine.

It is also known than the participants in the developing colonization in these regions in the New World were responsible for furnishing thier own arms and armour, and all manner of these were present from reasonably new to old or surplus items, as well as it would seem antiquated styles from remote regions obviously depending on circumstances of the individual. It does not seem unreasonable to think that at some point in these colonial times a number of these scaled armors may have arrived in New Mexico. Clearly there must have been a very small number, as the estimated number of extant pieces of these small shields reach only about 500, with only abour 200 that have been examined, the others unaccounted for. As has been noted, the shields in the article (op.cit. Rogers & LaRocca, 1999) are remarkably similar, if not the same as those seen on the 'mantle' in discussion.

The area in New Mexico where these where found, and the area where the mantle was found are actually not remarkably distant geographically, and it does not seem unreasonably to think that diffusion of these armor shields as sundry items via American Indian tribes and/or Comanchero traders in these regions would be unlikely. What is remarkable is that these items, with one grouping found in New Mexico as scattered pieces, and an entire 'Bishops Mantle' type body armour found in Texas constructed of these same, most unusual scales present an almost stunning coincidence.

It is unfortunate that we do not have the body armor worn by Chief Iron Shirt in 1858, and clearly in the regions of the Comanche and Plains Apache, as it might reveal the nature of the scaled armour apparantly used. In all other accounts I have ever seen, reference to his armor only decribes it as 'old Spanish armour', without further detail.

If it was similar to the mantle of our discussion, which seems to be fashioned by an artisan somewhat skilled in the fashioning of this type armour..would this suggest that perhaps a small number of these types of armour were fashioned by the Spanish reusing the old components of antiquated armour?
If this was the case, could these have been acquired by warriors of local tribes, and the one in Texas found intact, while the other (s) in New Mexico had been lost and come apart?

While considering this as a possibility, we still have not come up with further examples of 19th century fraternal or theatrical costumes and regalia. It would be interesting to see how these items would compare to known styles and thier construction. What remains a puzzle however is, these shields seem to be authentically European and of early period...in this case, how would they end up in such costume type wear, and both in rare and unusual archaeological circumstances?

All best regards,
Jim