Krisses Jalak Buda

Jean · 5th July 2010, 12:31 PM

Dear friends,
In the very interesting book "Keris untuk Dunia" published on the occasion of the "Keris for the World 2010" exhibition in Jakarta, there are a number of pictures of krisses Jalak Buda. They are all are classified from tangguh Singasari and most of them are called Keris Jalak Sangu Tumpeng. Some of them look very old but others have visible pamor so they don't seem to date from the same period. What do you think about the assigned tangguh and the correct name of these krisses?
Sorry, I can't copy any pictures from the book because of the copyright, but I attach the pictures of the 2 Krisses Jalak Buda from my collection for your reference.
Best regards
Jean

Paul Duffy · 6th July 2010, 04:37 AM

Jean,
This seems to be a very interesting exhibition in Jakarta.I probably won't be able to get to it,but do you know if the book you mentioned,"Keris untuk Dunia' is available on the internet?

rasjid · 6th July 2010, 08:19 AM

Hi Paul,

You can contact this email: sentosakeris@yahoo.com (Mr Toni Junus) to see if they still have (only printed 1000copies) and I believe after the exhibition only less than 200 copies left. Its a big book with more than >300pages of A4 size kerises.

Good luck.

rasjid

Greybeard · 6th July 2010, 02:05 PM

Dear Jean,

I first thought that I cannot contribute to your thread, but now I notice one detail with the first keris you post that makes me wonder: Do I see a turned over mendak or is it a metuk, permanently fixed to the pesi (as seen on tombak)?

Best regards,

Heinz

Jean · 6th July 2010, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Dear Jean,

I first thought that I cannot contribute to your thread, but now I notice one detail with the first keris you post that makes me wonder: Do I see a turned over mendak or is it a metuk, permanently fixed to the pesi (as seen on tombak)?

Best regards,

Heinz

Dear Heinz,
Both krisses are fitted with an integrated methuk (as it should be). The top one has some rust embedded in it but of course I did not do anything to it except applying anti-rust oil for future conservation.
Best regards
Jean

A. G. Maisey · 8th July 2010, 06:10 AM

Jean, the keris of which you show images are not pure keris budho, but rather of a type intermediate between keris budho and the early modern keris.

As to why they are given the classification designation of "Singosari", well, that's something that nobody can answer at this remove. But don't let it worry you, its only a classification, and might just as well be given any designation.

When we start to involve ourselves with tangguh, which you are doing with these questions, there are two major ways you can go:- accept everything as an item of faith, or reject everything as so much invention.

To be fair, there is a third way:- accept as more or less historically accurate those classifications that can be logically supported, and regard those classifications which cannot be logically supported as indicative of possibilities only.

Jean · 6th July 2010, 02:29 PM

Dear friends,
My question seems to raise some interest from the number of viewers but no response so I will try to stimulate you a bit:
AFAIK these krisses Budha are supposed to be the oldest type of kris and some sources say that they may have originated in Central Java around the 9th or 10th century AD. So why are they classified from a 13th century short-lived period in East Java? If they originated in East Java and not Centre Java, why during the Singosari period and not the earlier kingdoms of Kahuripan (11th century), or Kediri and Jenggala (11th and 12th century)? According to the legend of Ken Arok and Empu Gandring, the krisses made during the Singosari period were much more elaborate than the krisses Budha? Also the features of the blades from tangguh Singosari described in the EK for instance do not match at all with the krisses Budha?
Pak Ganja, your kris shown in page174 of the book is the only one of this kind called keris Budho but the tangguh is specified as Budho - Singosari, what does it mean?

Regarding the book "Keris untuk Dunia", it was for sale on Ebay by Bakoelkeris (Suryono) few days ago but no longer, you may contact him to investigate if he still has or cand get some copies.
Best regards
Jean

ganjawulung · 11th August 2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Pak Ganja, your kris shown in page174 of the book is the only one of this kind called keris Budho but the tangguh is specified as Budho - Singosari, what does it mean?

Dear Jean,
The classification 'Singasari" is not from me, but from book curator's opinion. And these images below, are from the same jalak buda blade as published in the KFTW book. I have seen quite a lot of "buda" tipe of jalak dhapur. But the condition of this blade is not as corrosive as usually I've seen..

GANJAWULUNG

Sajen · 21st June 2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Duffy

Jean,
This seems to be a very interesting exhibition in Jakarta.I probably won't be able to get to it,but do you know if the book you mentioned,"Keris untuk Dunia' is available on the internet?

Hello Paul,

sometimes i see it listed by ebay!

Regards,

Detlef

Uups, don't have seen that it is an old thread!

Sajen · 21st June 2012, 10:51 PM

What do you think about this one?

5th July 2010, 12:31 PM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Krisses Jalak Buda Dear friends, In the very interesting book "Keris untuk Dunia" published on the occasion of the "Keris for the World 2010" exhibition in Jakarta, there are a number of pictures of krisses Jalak Buda. They are all are classified from tangguh Singasari and most of them are called Keris Jalak Sangu Tumpeng. Some of them look very old but others have visible pamor so they don't seem to date from the same period. What do you think about the assigned tangguh and the correct name of these krisses? Sorry, I can't copy any pictures from the book because of the copyright, but I attach the pictures of the 2 Krisses Jalak Buda from my collection for your reference. Best regards Jean Attached Images

21st June 2012, 10:51 PM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	What do you think about this one? Attached Images

6th July 2010, 04:37 AM	#2
Paul Duffy Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 31	Jean, This seems to be a very interesting exhibition in Jakarta.I probably won't be able to get to it,but do you know if the book you mentioned,"Keris untuk Dunia' is available on the internet?

6th July 2010, 08:19 AM	#3
rasjid Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Jakarta - Indonesia Posts: 114	Hi Paul, You can contact this email: sentosakeris@yahoo.com (Mr Toni Junus) to see if they still have (only printed 1000copies) and I believe after the exhibition only less than 200 copies left. Its a big book with more than >300pages of A4 size kerises. Good luck. rasjid

6th July 2010, 02:05 PM	#4
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Dear Jean, I first thought that I cannot contribute to your thread, but now I notice one detail with the first keris you post that makes me wonder: Do I see a turned over mendak or is it a metuk, permanently fixed to the pesi (as seen on tombak)? Best regards, Heinz

8th July 2010, 06:10 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Jean, the keris of which you show images are not pure keris budho, but rather of a type intermediate between keris budho and the early modern keris. As to why they are given the classification designation of "Singosari", well, that's something that nobody can answer at this remove. But don't let it worry you, its only a classification, and might just as well be given any designation. When we start to involve ourselves with tangguh, which you are doing with these questions, there are two major ways you can go:- accept everything as an item of faith, or reject everything as so much invention. To be fair, there is a third way:- accept as more or less historically accurate those classifications that can be logically supported, and regard those classifications which cannot be logically supported as indicative of possibilities only.

6th July 2010, 02:29 PM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Dear friends, My question seems to raise some interest from the number of viewers but no response so I will try to stimulate you a bit: AFAIK these krisses Budha are supposed to be the oldest type of kris and some sources say that they may have originated in Central Java around the 9th or 10th century AD. So why are they classified from a 13th century short-lived period in East Java? If they originated in East Java and not Centre Java, why during the Singosari period and not the earlier kingdoms of Kahuripan (11th century), or Kediri and Jenggala (11th and 12th century)? According to the legend of Ken Arok and Empu Gandring, the krisses made during the Singosari period were much more elaborate than the krisses Budha? Also the features of the blades from tangguh Singosari described in the EK for instance do not match at all with the krisses Budha? Pak Ganja, your kris shown in page174 of the book is the only one of this kind called keris Budho but the tangguh is specified as Budho - Singosari, what does it mean? Regarding the book "Keris untuk Dunia", it was for sale on Ebay by Bakoelkeris (Suryono) few days ago but no longer, you may contact him to investigate if he still has or cand get some copies. Best regards Jean