Authenticity Of Keris

mykeris · 24th January 2005, 05:29 AM

Hope to get some feedback from all forumites regarding this keris. Dont worry, I will not get offended easily on whatever comments passed for this keris....Free to comment. Got it from an old friend of mine. This keris is short and large, portable...and handy too. Please comment wheather is old or new . I am bit blur about this keris. Is this a Malay keris? Thanks in advance.

nechesh · 24th January 2005, 12:40 PM

Well, MK, what you are showing us is what is known as a keris buda and is believed to be one of the oldest forms of keris. However, judging authenticity of these (and keris in general) from internet photos is always tricky, especially since so many modern reproduction of keris buda have been made and then artifically aged. That being said, the form you are showing would not be the oldest type as it has a seperate gonjo, the "guard" piece along the base of the blade.
On the down side the erosion of this blade does look to be quite even, a possible sign of artifical aging. On the up side the close-up of the pesi (tang) does seem to show some remnants of hair which was a common old way to secure the hilt tightly on the blade. Others here may be able to tell you more definitely,but without a hands on examination you may never know for sure.

mykeris · 24th January 2005, 12:58 PM

Thats a great comment from you Nechesh. I will take note on your points. We'll wait from the others as well. TQ.

DAHenkel · 24th January 2005, 11:57 PM

Newly made.

This kind of wear is caused by Hydrochloric Acid. Its too even and the pitting is extremely deep, giving the blade the look of a flint blade. There are a whole lot of these artificially aged bethok/buddha blades being made today. Just browse ebay. You'll find 3 or 4 usually.

The funny thing is, the legitimately old ones usually look to be in better shape than the new ones.

But hey, if it was given to you, whats to worry about?

mykeris · 25th January 2005, 12:54 AM

Thanks DAHenkel. I have many more to learn. Do you have photo samples of the real ones or do you own any of this kind, an original one? Pictures taken from the original ones would help. TQ

Sakhti777 · 25th January 2005, 08:06 AM

There's now many new k. buda being produced in Indonesia to meet market demand, however none of those, in terms of its finishing, could match the prototype buda.

Your keris could be new or maybe ancient, no one knows, because till now I dont see anybody in this forum sending the right photos of original k.buda, mostly alarmed with assumptions without even seeing or owning one or may I say refrain to send one scared of being denied and condemned.

The overall physical and internal presentation of your keris,do invite me to have a second thought. In my humble opinion, I would rather categorise your keris as an 'early keris' not of original buda but bethok buda of later period which I think Allan Maisey is familiar off.

Severe pittings and corrosion of the blade not necessarily to mean it is the real one. I am sure the smith can produce uneven effects on a new blade any time. The hair found at the metuk acts as a 'spiritual strengthen tool' between the owner and the so called 'Chee' or energy of the keris.

nechesh · 26th January 2005, 04:29 AM

Here are some more interesting photos and info: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/taman.sari/k...ishistory1.htm

Sakhti777 · 26th January 2005, 05:08 AM

Nechesh, I must thank you for being so helpful in extracting these pictures. The keris buda in that extract will surely face the same fate as others. I am not convinced at all. Lets have a real picture taken from an internationally recognised Keris Buda. You have any?

Here is a fake keris buda that has undergone HCL acid treatment. Hope you can see the difference.

nechesh · 26th January 2005, 05:35 AM

Sakhti, are you saying that you don't believe that the two keris buda that Alan Maisey presents in his article are authentic?

Sepang · 26th January 2005, 06:46 AM

Hello dear all,

I'll try to joint in this thread 'cause need to discus about Keris Budho. So far, I never heard from Indonesian or Malay people that they can give some reason about Keris Budho. Yes..., many people have it, but they don't know about their keris, old or new made.
Look at the Muzium Siber, www.kerisjawa.tk, etc, you can see some image about Keris Budho. But, if I ask them, they can't give a guarantee that their keris is old.
In this thread, I look that some image demonstrate a new keris, although modificated like old keris.
TQ.

Alam Shah · 26th January 2005, 07:27 AM

From the site, most piece looks new. But, I'm not an expert. Just my opinion.

Sakhti777 · 26th January 2005, 07:56 AM

Nechesh, I like you man. Not that we would not believe its authenticity. As Rasdan said earlier, anything that comes from a reliable source, we tend to take it for real even the keris is not. If that source comes from a newcomer, then we may have many assumptions in this forum. More problems would arise when keris is not undressed of its warangan during identification. Let it be clean until you could see fine grains of the blade.

Look at that. Thanks Sepang. Sure, a similar quality of blade as posted by Ria for his k.buda. Try undress the warangan, then you would see the reality.

24th January 2005, 05:29 AM	#1
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Authenticity Of Keris Hope to get some feedback from all forumites regarding this keris. Dont worry, I will not get offended easily on whatever comments passed for this keris....Free to comment. Got it from an old friend of mine. This keris is short and large, portable...and handy too. Please comment wheather is old or new . I am bit blur about this keris. Is this a Malay keris? Thanks in advance. Attached Images Last edited by mykeris; 24th January 2005 at 10:59 AM.

24th January 2005, 12:58 PM	#3
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Good points. Thats a great comment from you Nechesh. I will take note on your points. We'll wait from the others as well. TQ.

25th January 2005, 08:06 AM	#6
Sakhti777 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Penang Posts: 14	There's now many new k. buda being produced in Indonesia to meet market demand, however none of those, in terms of its finishing, could match the prototype buda. Your keris could be new or maybe ancient, no one knows, because till now I dont see anybody in this forum sending the right photos of original k.buda, mostly alarmed with assumptions without even seeing or owning one or may I say refrain to send one scared of being denied and condemned. The overall physical and internal presentation of your keris,do invite me to have a second thought. In my humble opinion, I would rather categorise your keris as an 'early keris' not of original buda but bethok buda of later period which I think Allan Maisey is familiar off. Severe pittings and corrosion of the blade not necessarily to mean it is the real one. I am sure the smith can produce uneven effects on a new blade any time. The hair found at the metuk acts as a 'spiritual strengthen tool' between the owner and the so called 'Chee' or energy of the keris. Last edited by Sakhti777; 25th January 2005 at 09:48 AM.

26th January 2005, 05:08 AM	#8
Sakhti777 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Penang Posts: 14	Nechesh, I must thank you for being so helpful in extracting these pictures. The keris buda in that extract will surely face the same fate as others. I am not convinced at all. Lets have a real picture taken from an internationally recognised Keris Buda. You have any? Here is a fake keris buda that has undergone HCL acid treatment. Hope you can see the difference. Attached Images Last edited by Sakhti777; 26th January 2005 at 05:36 AM.

26th January 2005, 06:46 AM	#10
Sepang Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 33	Keris Budho Hello dear all, I'll try to joint in this thread 'cause need to discus about Keris Budho. So far, I never heard from Indonesian or Malay people that they can give some reason about Keris Budho. Yes..., many people have it, but they don't know about their keris, old or new made. Look at the Muzium Siber, www.kerisjawa.tk, etc, you can see some image about Keris Budho. But, if I ask them, they can't give a guarantee that their keris is old. In this thread, I look that some image demonstrate a new keris, although modificated like old keris. TQ.

24th January 2005, 12:40 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Well, MK, what you are showing us is what is known as a keris buda and is believed to be one of the oldest forms of keris. However, judging authenticity of these (and keris in general) from internet photos is always tricky, especially since so many modern reproduction of keris buda have been made and then artifically aged. That being said, the form you are showing would not be the oldest type as it has a seperate gonjo, the "guard" piece along the base of the blade. On the down side the erosion of this blade does look to be quite even, a possible sign of artifical aging. On the up side the close-up of the pesi (tang) does seem to show some remnants of hair which was a common old way to secure the hilt tightly on the blade. Others here may be able to tell you more definitely,but without a hands on examination you may never know for sure.

24th January 2005, 11:57 PM	#4
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Newly made. This kind of wear is caused by Hydrochloric Acid. Its too even and the pitting is extremely deep, giving the blade the look of a flint blade. There are a whole lot of these artificially aged bethok/buddha blades being made today. Just browse ebay. You'll find 3 or 4 usually. The funny thing is, the legitimately old ones usually look to be in better shape than the new ones. But hey, if it was given to you, whats to worry about?

25th January 2005, 12:54 AM	#5
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Thanks DAHenkel. I have many more to learn. Do you have photo samples of the real ones or do you own any of this kind, an original one? Pictures taken from the original ones would help. TQ

26th January 2005, 04:29 AM	#7
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Here are some more interesting photos and info: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/taman.sari/k...ishistory1.htm

26th January 2005, 05:35 AM	#9
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Sakhti, are you saying that you don't believe that the two keris buda that Alan Maisey presents in his article are authentic?

26th January 2005, 07:27 AM	#11
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	From the site, most piece looks new. But, I'm not an expert. Just my opinion.

26th January 2005, 07:56 AM	#12
Sakhti777 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Penang Posts: 14	Nechesh, I like you man. Not that we would not believe its authenticity. As Rasdan said earlier, anything that comes from a reliable source, we tend to take it for real even the keris is not. If that source comes from a newcomer, then we may have many assumptions in this forum. More problems would arise when keris is not undressed of its warangan during identification. Let it be clean until you could see fine grains of the blade. Look at that. Thanks Sepang. Sure, a similar quality of blade as posted by Ria for his k.buda. Try undress the warangan, then you would see the reality.