viking sword or historism?

dralin23 · 2nd February 2016, 07:10 AM

hi guys,
some days ago i saw an old looking sword. at the first view i thought it is an realy old viking sword but my second idea was if it is an mew maded antique looking sword? the reason for these opinion is that the surface form the blade and also from the guear looks to good, the guard is moovable at the angle an by an view inside the guard i could see new rust but no dark patina....
i know there are a lot of old looking sowrd at the market not only form the recent days, these fashion started in the victorian time when a lot of rich peoples in the western wolrd want to buy "old" weapons and armours for their smoking cabinets.
i´m very curious about the opinions from the other members in the forum.
medival swords are not my special branch, so i need your knowledge

thanks stefan

RobertGuy · 2nd February 2016, 09:23 AM

The lobed pommel worries me a bit. Usually these were in two parts with the tang peened through the lower part and then the upper part riveted on. I'm not sure that this is definite proof that it is a replica as I believe there were old examples with single piece pommels.

kronckew · 2nd February 2016, 09:44 AM

found this: Saxon/viking sword construction

info on two part and single part pommels.

the wide hollow on the inside seems to indicate something would have covered it, which is missing and would have served as a pommel bar/lower guard.

Lee · 2nd February 2016, 03:04 PM

First, dralin23, your skepticism is justified. Only very rarely can I either denounce or confirm authenticity from pictures, and this is not one of those rare obvious exceptions. If this is a forgery, it will not date back to Victorian times, but will be from the last two or so decades and most likely from eastern Europe where the forgers are growing ever so more proficient.

The overall form and relative dimensions appear to be within authentic limits. Your concerns about traces of active (red) rust in concealed places are well founded, but not absolutely denunciatory. The long hollow in the last picture appears to be a typical inset for the blade (the lower guard being loose and having been slid up against the upper guard for the photo).

Often forgeries will be over-decorated in hopes of fetching a higher price, but this sword appears to lack such elaborations. However, usually a Peterson type K (5 lobed pommel with parallel lobes) will have added decoration.

So, in the end, I do not know and I am not even sure that I would know if it were before me in good light. Is there any evidence of an iron inlaid inscription in the blade or traces of perished hilt non-ferrous overlay?

dralin23 · 2nd February 2016, 05:04 PM

hello lee, kronkew and robert,
thank you for your replay. i know it is not so easy to say something only from some views at some pictures.
but it is everytime intresting to talk and discus about an sword or an armour with other intrested collectors.
i was looking at the blade and the pommel and the guard too, there are no one trace from an old inscription or an pattern at the surface. maybe it is covered with these thik patina or old rust but i wouldn´t like remove it.
i will ask the old owner from these sword in the next some days, maybe he could tell me something about the circumstances from the purchase. it is intrested to know how was the way from these sword since it come at the open market( years ago). where was it sold in the past, was it an well reputated auctionshouse
it is right in the last decades after the borders fell to the east comes a lot of "rare" swords ..mamluk swords, shashkas, kevshure swords , kinjals and a lot os japanes swords from the east and sometimes it is realy not easy to see that these sword is an fake sword. the craftsman there are also very good and they learned step by step.....
i will give you more informations when i got some more.
thank you, stefan

Roland_M · 3rd February 2016, 10:39 AM

Hello Stefan,

one good way to test your sword without destruction is a x-ray investigation.

If it is a viking sword, it must show laminations, an inserted cutting edge or a mechanical damascus pattern. Many vikings swords have laminated high quality steel for the cutting edge and a beautiful mechanical damascus pattern for the rest of the blade.

Some sources claim that some vikining swords were made from crucible steel but i think this must be wrong, i never see one. The famous "ulfberht" blades for example were forged from laminated refined steel.

Roland

2nd February 2016, 07:10 AM	#1
dralin23 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 194	viking sword or historism? hi guys, some days ago i saw an old looking sword. at the first view i thought it is an realy old viking sword but my second idea was if it is an mew maded antique looking sword? the reason for these opinion is that the surface form the blade and also from the guear looks to good, the guard is moovable at the angle an by an view inside the guard i could see new rust but no dark patina.... i know there are a lot of old looking sowrd at the market not only form the recent days, these fashion started in the victorian time when a lot of rich peoples in the western wolrd want to buy "old" weapons and armours for their smoking cabinets. i´m very curious about the opinions from the other members in the forum. medival swords are not my special branch, so i need your knowledge thanks stefan Attached Images

2nd February 2016, 03:04 PM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 913	Verdict: I don't know First, dralin23, your skepticism is justified. Only very rarely can I either denounce or confirm authenticity from pictures, and this is not one of those rare obvious exceptions. If this is a forgery, it will not date back to Victorian times, but will be from the last two or so decades and most likely from eastern Europe where the forgers are growing ever so more proficient. The overall form and relative dimensions appear to be within authentic limits. Your concerns about traces of active (red) rust in concealed places are well founded, but not absolutely denunciatory. The long hollow in the last picture appears to be a typical inset for the blade (the lower guard being loose and having been slid up against the upper guard for the photo). Often forgeries will be over-decorated in hopes of fetching a higher price, but this sword appears to lack such elaborations. However, usually a Peterson type K (5 lobed pommel with parallel lobes) will have added decoration. So, in the end, I do not know and I am not even sure that I would know if it were before me in good light. Is there any evidence of an iron inlaid inscription in the blade or traces of perished hilt non-ferrous overlay?

2nd February 2016, 05:04 PM	#5
dralin23 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 194	viking sword hello lee, kronkew and robert, thank you for your replay. i know it is not so easy to say something only from some views at some pictures. but it is everytime intresting to talk and discus about an sword or an armour with other intrested collectors. i was looking at the blade and the pommel and the guard too, there are no one trace from an old inscription or an pattern at the surface. maybe it is covered with these thik patina or old rust but i wouldn´t like remove it. i will ask the old owner from these sword in the next some days, maybe he could tell me something about the circumstances from the purchase. it is intrested to know how was the way from these sword since it come at the open market( years ago). where was it sold in the past, was it an well reputated auctionshouse it is right in the last decades after the borders fell to the east comes a lot of "rare" swords ..mamluk swords, shashkas, kevshure swords , kinjals and a lot os japanes swords from the east and sometimes it is realy not easy to see that these sword is an fake sword. the craftsman there are also very good and they learned step by step..... i will give you more informations when i got some more. thank you, stefan

2nd February 2016, 09:23 AM	#2
RobertGuy Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 135	The lobed pommel worries me a bit. Usually these were in two parts with the tang peened through the lower part and then the upper part riveted on. I'm not sure that this is definite proof that it is a replica as I believe there were old examples with single piece pommels.

2nd February 2016, 09:44 AM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	found this: Saxon/viking sword construction info on two part and single part pommels. the wide hollow on the inside seems to indicate something would have covered it, which is missing and would have served as a pommel bar/lower guard.

3rd February 2016, 10:39 AM	#6
Roland_M Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Germany Posts: 525	Hello Stefan, one good way to test your sword without destruction is a x-ray investigation. If it is a viking sword, it must show laminations, an inserted cutting edge or a mechanical damascus pattern. Many vikings swords have laminated high quality steel for the cutting edge and a beautiful mechanical damascus pattern for the rest of the blade. Some sources claim that some vikining swords were made from crucible steel but i think this must be wrong, i never see one. The famous "ulfberht" blades for example were forged from laminated refined steel. Roland