Bronze Age axe head

Ken Maddock · 7th January 2015, 09:20 PM

Hi
I have just purchased this axe, i know they are a mine field but the price was right, i have not got it in hand though so i am limited by the sellers photos,
I should have it in a week or so
I know it is a palstave axe type, but other than that I know nothing
The remnants of the flashing is still on the side of the head but I understand this is normal enough on axes that were just used for shows of wealth rather than a working piece
I am in ireland and the seller says it was in an old collection, I have purchased a lot off him before and would trust the individual but I have been plenty wrong in the past on several things
All comments welcome but I know it is hard to give full opinion without a lot of analysis
Regards
Ken

fernando · 7th January 2015, 09:39 PM

Hi Ken,
I can tell you by experience that, the chance to get the real thing, is extremely remote.
I wish you luck with this one

.

Ken Maddock · 7th January 2015, 11:24 PM

Hi Fernando
I saw your post from a while ago about ones you got in auction and I found it interesting
I work in chemistry and have access to metal composition analytical equipment
Do you know if there is a distinctive composition that will distinguish old form reproduction or are the reproducers getting the composition correct
It was inexpensive enough so I will get the money's worth from the learning experience, I might even get an undergrad practical out of it!

Tomorrow I am off to se a blunderbuss, and I am on more comfortable ground with this, hopefully it will be a good purchase,
Best regards
Ken

fernando · 8th January 2015, 08:54 PM

Hi Ken,
I am a zero on metalurgies. I had to trust those who had such knowledge, in the first place and, in the end, i met the person who had loan two originals to the guy who atempted and managed to cast copies, from which lot my examples apparently belonged.
You are dead right in that blunderbusses are a more comfortable hobby. I hope you acquire the example you talk about ... and show it to us

kronckew · 9th January 2015, 12:24 AM

i've heard that the balkans i a good source for chemically patinated bronze mace and axe head repros. most 'roman' bronze items on epray seem to come from there. i bought an 'ancient roman mace head' for about £30, cleaned the green goop off with salt & vinagar, polished it and it made a neat walking stick knob handle. i bought a socketed bronze 'roman' axe head for about the same, it also made a nice walking stick. i left it green. both came from romania &were brand new under the green. found a company that made exact castings of real artifacts, warts, pits, broken bits & all, and fairly cheap. wrote them to ask if they' make me an unbroken unpitted casting. they never replied.

anyhow modern bronzes have a differing copper/tin ratio and some use a dab of aluminum in the mix, phosphorus is also used. a mettalergical analysis might show the mix is modern or not. i doubt the forgers are duplicating exactly the old mix (i hear some had lead &or zinc in as well as tin). you can download a PDF document on the metallurgy of ancient bronze HERE

'ancient' roman bronze mace head walking stick. - top
'anchient roman socket axe' walking stick/fokos. - bottom -it's nice & sharp
too

mace head below -after cleaning & before.
bronze axe head used on the walking stick.

kronckew · 9th January 2015, 01:26 AM

p.s. - here's a palistave axe from a bronze smith here in the UK that conducts 'cast your own' 3-day classes for axes/swords/spearheads a few times a year. been thinking of going. you live in a roundhouse & cook your food over a fire in bronze-age fashion.

7th January 2015, 09:20 PM	#1
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	Bronze Age axe head Hi I have just purchased this axe, i know they are a mine field but the price was right, i have not got it in hand though so i am limited by the sellers photos, I should have it in a week or so I know it is a palstave axe type, but other than that I know nothing The remnants of the flashing is still on the side of the head but I understand this is normal enough on axes that were just used for shows of wealth rather than a working piece I am in ireland and the seller says it was in an old collection, I have purchased a lot off him before and would trust the individual but I have been plenty wrong in the past on several things All comments welcome but I know it is hard to give full opinion without a lot of analysis Regards Ken Attached Images

9th January 2015, 12:24 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	i've heard that the balkans i a good source for chemically patinated bronze mace and axe head repros. most 'roman' bronze items on epray seem to come from there. i bought an 'ancient roman mace head' for about £30, cleaned the green goop off with salt & vinagar, polished it and it made a neat walking stick knob handle. i bought a socketed bronze 'roman' axe head for about the same, it also made a nice walking stick. i left it green. both came from romania &were brand new under the green. found a company that made exact castings of real artifacts, warts, pits, broken bits & all, and fairly cheap. wrote them to ask if they' make me an unbroken unpitted casting. they never replied. anyhow modern bronzes have a differing copper/tin ratio and some use a dab of aluminum in the mix, phosphorus is also used. a mettalergical analysis might show the mix is modern or not. i doubt the forgers are duplicating exactly the old mix (i hear some had lead &or zinc in as well as tin). you can download a PDF document on the metallurgy of ancient bronze HERE 'ancient' roman bronze mace head walking stick. - top 'anchient roman socket axe' walking stick/fokos. - bottom -it's nice & sharp too mace head below -after cleaning & before. bronze axe head used on the walking stick. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 9th January 2015 at 01:37 AM.

9th January 2015, 01:26 AM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	p.s. - here's a palistave axe from a bronze smith here in the UK that conducts 'cast your own' 3-day classes for axes/swords/spearheads a few times a year. been thinking of going. you live in a roundhouse & cook your food over a fire in bronze-age fashion. Attached Images

7th January 2015, 09:39 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Ken, I can tell you by experience that, the chance to get the real thing, is extremely remote. I wish you luck with this one .

7th January 2015, 11:24 PM	#3
Ken Maddock Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Posts: 104	Hi Fernando I saw your post from a while ago about ones you got in auction and I found it interesting I work in chemistry and have access to metal composition analytical equipment Do you know if there is a distinctive composition that will distinguish old form reproduction or are the reproducers getting the composition correct It was inexpensive enough so I will get the money's worth from the learning experience, I might even get an undergrad practical out of it! Tomorrow I am off to se a blunderbuss, and I am on more comfortable ground with this, hopefully it will be a good purchase, Best regards Ken

8th January 2015, 08:54 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Ken, I am a zero on metalurgies. I had to trust those who had such knowledge, in the first place and, in the end, i met the person who had loan two originals to the guy who atempted and managed to cast copies, from which lot my examples apparently belonged. You are dead right in that blunderbusses are a more comfortable hobby. I hope you acquire the example you talk about ... and show it to us