Zulu Short Halbard ?

katana · 15th July 2007, 10:11 PM

I have never seen this type of weapon attributed to Africa...let alone Zulu.

Does anyone know whether this is a weapon... or ceremonial or even a 'victorian fantasy piece'

Comments please?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...5850&rd=1&rd=1

Battara · 15th July 2007, 10:18 PM

It is African, although with things added - either fantasy piece or someone added to the axe for some other reason.....

Tim Simmons · 15th July 2007, 10:23 PM

I have two things that relate to this piece. Again I personally think we are looking at something that is far from "ZULU" and more towards the big lakes and a strong Arab influence. One item is in the loft so I will not be able to show any pics untill tomorrow.

kronckew · 16th July 2007, 12:42 PM

'stunning' and 'rare' are caveats to me, and i now have also added 'zulu' to my vocabulary of words that are ebay propaganda and usually untrue.

katana · 16th July 2007, 03:00 PM

I have added an enhanced picture.

Fistly I think the only thing 'zulu' about this piece IMHO is the style of the wire binding.

Secondly the chances of this being a weapon has been greatly reduced since I have enhanced the picture. The spear end appears to be tanged but is only short as it would hit the portion of the the axe head that passes through the shaft. This arrangement would make it 'weak'....far better would be that the axe and spear head were forged in 'one piece'.
It also seems that the 'axe' has not got a sharpened edge, is relatively thin and seems to be made from uniform sheet metal, rather than forged.

The circle motif, although common to Africa, the Middle East and Asia is something I have not seen on any Zulu artefact... (so far

).

The more I look at it, the more I believe this item is 'made-up' , based on an European idea of an 'old' weapon. Either concieved in Africa...to sell to tourists. Or worse ....made in Europe perhaps to deceive.

Tim Simmons · 16th July 2007, 07:38 PM

It may not be tourist stuff. Anything introduced on ebay with praise always means itis rubbish

. Sorry I have not got into the loft, its that good

.

Freddy · 16th July 2007, 08:14 PM

I don't know about this one, but it can be African.

I'm trying to get an axe into my collection which is still owned by a Dutch friend from Amsterdam. I handled this piece several times and although it looks rather 'fancy' for an African axe, it really is a good piece. (and I know, one day, it will be mine

)

It's the axe in the middle of the pic. My friend says it comes from Tansania.

15th July 2007, 10:11 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Zulu Short Halbard ? I have never seen this type of weapon attributed to Africa...let alone Zulu. Does anyone know whether this is a weapon... or ceremonial or even a 'victorian fantasy piece' Comments please? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...5850&rd=1&rd=1

16th July 2007, 03:00 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	I have added an enhanced picture. Fistly I think the only thing 'zulu' about this piece IMHO is the style of the wire binding. Secondly the chances of this being a weapon has been greatly reduced since I have enhanced the picture. The spear end appears to be tanged but is only short as it would hit the portion of the the axe head that passes through the shaft. This arrangement would make it 'weak'....far better would be that the axe and spear head were forged in 'one piece'. It also seems that the 'axe' has not got a sharpened edge, is relatively thin and seems to be made from uniform sheet metal, rather than forged. The circle motif, although common to Africa, the Middle East and Asia is something I have not seen on any Zulu artefact... (so far ). The more I look at it, the more I believe this item is 'made-up' , based on an European idea of an 'old' weapon. Either concieved in Africa...to sell to tourists. Or worse ....made in Europe perhaps to deceive. Attached Images

15th July 2007, 10:18 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	It is African, although with things added - either fantasy piece or someone added to the axe for some other reason.....

15th July 2007, 10:23 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I have two things that relate to this piece. Again I personally think we are looking at something that is far from "ZULU" and more towards the big lakes and a strong Arab influence. One item is in the loft so I will not be able to show any pics untill tomorrow.

16th July 2007, 12:42 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	'stunning' and 'rare' are caveats to me, and i now have also added 'zulu' to my vocabulary of words that are ebay propaganda and usually untrue.

16th July 2007, 07:38 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	It may not be tourist stuff. Anything introduced on ebay with praise always means itis rubbish . Sorry I have not got into the loft, its that good .

16th July 2007, 08:14 PM	#7
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I don't know about this one, but it can be African. I'm trying to get an axe into my collection which is still owned by a Dutch friend from Amsterdam. I handled this piece several times and although it looks rather 'fancy' for an African axe, it really is a good piece. (and I know, one day, it will be mine ) It's the axe in the middle of the pic. My friend says it comes from Tansania.