Sudanese kaskara - Arabic translation request

colin henshaw · 10th November 2011, 03:21 PM

Hi

Could someone kindly assist in translating the Arabic on this kaskara. Its on both sides of the blade, but proved tricky to photograph. Hope it can be made out OK. I've added a couple of detail shots for those forumites who like kaskaras.

Thanks in advance....

A.alnakkas · 10th November 2011, 03:26 PM

Hey Colin,

I'll try to decipher this later tonight or tommorow, but the pictures could be better.

Just a random observation, but the script is not the usual found in Sudanese item.. I think this blade is pretty old.

Iain · 10th November 2011, 04:00 PM

Thanks for posting Colin, looks like a nice Solingen blade you have. I see you've got the orb and lion, no fly mark? Otherwise seems to confirm to the basic Kull pattern, but looks very early.

Very nice sword!

Cheers,

Iain

Lew · 10th November 2011, 04:48 PM

Here are the other two pics from the duplicate thread.

Jim McDougall · 10th November 2011, 11:44 PM

Thanks very much for sharing the native applied lion and cross and orb. It would be great to know more on the Islamic script added, which seems atypical on these post Mahdiyya kaskara. Hopefully Stephen might observe.

Iain · 10th November 2011, 11:56 PM

Looking again I'd have to say I agree Jim, certainly locally applied marks. Still wonder why the fly is missing... Odd. I still would say the blade has a good chance to be European, don't normally see a ricasso on a native blade.

Also hope Stephen can chime in here, he's seen far more of these swords than most of us!

Dom · 14th November 2011, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Could someone kindly assist in translating the Arabic on this kaskara.

Hi Colin
unfortunately, the text written with the aphabet Arabic, should be in Sudanese dialect
unreadable, for an Arabic speaker of Arabic classic language,
you must found a Sudanese able to read his dialectal language
despite this, it has been determined, that it was a poem,
the translation is roughly impossible excepted some words related to religious invocations, as well as
"Rasul Allah" either "God's Prophet" ... "Allah" either "God"
absolutely sorry

any way, I think my "Brother Lotfi", has not been more fortunate in his attempt of translation

à +

Dom

colin henshaw · 17th November 2011, 08:55 AM

Hi Dom

Thanks anyway for your efforts on translation. Any Sudanese in the forum ?

Glad the kaskara has produced so much interest - its a thick, heavy old blade, with beautiful script. Might be native made ? but difficult to say 100% (refer my previous posts on this subject). The engravings of the lion, orb and script may have been by the same hand. The crossguard probably forged.

Regards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi Colin
unfortunately, the text written with the aphabet Arabic, should be in Sudanese dialect
unreadable, for an Arabic speaker of Arabic classic language,
you must found a Sudanese able to read his dialectal language
despite this, it has been determined, that it was a poem,
the translation is roughly impossible excepted some words related to religious invocations, as well as
"Rasul Allah" either "God's Prophet" ... "Allah" either "God"
absolutely sorry

any way, I think my "Brother Lotfi", has not been more fortunate in his attempt of translation

à +

Dom

A.alnakkas · 17th November 2011, 09:07 AM

Hello guys,

Sorry its taking me a while to translate this. I am busy with my mid terms so studying and other stuff are taking my time. Promise to translate what I can once am free :-)

A.alnakkas · 17th November 2011, 09:10 AM

I think its a poem by doing a superficial reading.

It also contains a reference to Imam Ali (La fata ella Ali Alkaraar, wa la saif ela thul Fiqar.) The interesting part about this reference is that it contains Alkaraar, which is a title to Imam Ali that means: the Slayer. I never seen it on a blade :-)

Edit: interesting find is that the Imam Ali reference has a grammatical mistake, replacing La with Ma (Ma fata ella Ali.. wa ma saif ela thul fiqar).. its strange how the scribe will make such a mistake while writing a poem.. hmm

More later

stephen wood · 17th November 2011, 10:54 AM

...could the quite calligraphic lion refer to Ali?

colin henshaw · 30th November 2011, 08:06 AM

Excellent work A Alnakkas ! I shall take some more images and post them, in a few days.

Regards.

colin henshaw · 4th December 2011, 01:10 PM

Here are a fresh set of images of the script....

10th November 2011, 03:21 PM	#1
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Sudanese kaskara - Arabic translation request Hi Could someone kindly assist in translating the Arabic on this kaskara. Its on both sides of the blade, but proved tricky to photograph. Hope it can be made out OK. I've added a couple of detail shots for those forumites who like kaskaras. Thanks in advance.... Attached Images

10th November 2011, 04:48 PM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Here are the other two pics from the duplicate thread. Attached Images

17th November 2011, 10:54 AM	#11
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	Asadullah - Lion of Allah ...could the quite calligraphic lion refer to Ali?

4th December 2011, 01:10 PM	#13
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Here are a fresh set of images of the script.... Attached Images

10th November 2011, 03:26 PM	#2
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hey Colin, I'll try to decipher this later tonight or tommorow, but the pictures could be better. Just a random observation, but the script is not the usual found in Sudanese item.. I think this blade is pretty old.

10th November 2011, 04:00 PM	#3
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Thanks for posting Colin, looks like a nice Solingen blade you have. I see you've got the orb and lion, no fly mark? Otherwise seems to confirm to the basic Kull pattern, but looks very early. Very nice sword! Cheers, Iain

10th November 2011, 11:44 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,902	Thanks very much for sharing the native applied lion and cross and orb. It would be great to know more on the Islamic script added, which seems atypical on these post Mahdiyya kaskara. Hopefully Stephen might observe.

10th November 2011, 11:56 PM	#6
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	Looking again I'd have to say I agree Jim, certainly locally applied marks. Still wonder why the fly is missing... Odd. I still would say the blade has a good chance to be European, don't normally see a ricasso on a native blade. Also hope Stephen can chime in here, he's seen far more of these swords than most of us!

17th November 2011, 09:07 AM	#9
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hello guys, Sorry its taking me a while to translate this. I am busy with my mid terms so studying and other stuff are taking my time. Promise to translate what I can once am free :-)

17th November 2011, 09:10 AM	#10
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	I think its a poem by doing a superficial reading. It also contains a reference to Imam Ali (La fata ella Ali Alkaraar, wa la saif ela thul Fiqar.) The interesting part about this reference is that it contains Alkaraar, which is a title to Imam Ali that means: the Slayer. I never seen it on a blade :-) Edit: interesting find is that the Imam Ali reference has a grammatical mistake, replacing La with Ma (Ma fata ella Ali.. wa ma saif ela thul fiqar).. its strange how the scribe will make such a mistake while writing a poem.. hmm More later

30th November 2011, 08:06 AM	#12
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Excellent work A Alnakkas ! I shall take some more images and post them, in a few days. Regards.