A nice kaskara

[CNK1]

Hello everyone,

I've recently acquired some addition to my collection and the first piece I'll present is a nice kaskara sword from Sudan.

It would date from the mahdist war or maybe a little bit before.

I hope you will like this little new addition just for waiting the rest of the presentation

Friendly,
Clement

[TVV]

The blade appears to have 5 fullers, which is an interesting and uncommon feature. I also like the thick silver inlay. Per previous discussion in this forum, the crossguard is of a style attributed to Darfur. I wonder however about the hilt and whether it is a more modern replacement.

Regards,
Teodor

[mariusgmioc]

It is difficult to judge from the photos, butvthis appears to be a locally made blade.

[Iain]

Better photos would help, but the blade could be European with the later addition of the half moon marks in Sudan (notice how the one mark overlaps the fuller). However, it could also be local. Always hard to tell without better photos or the blade in hand.

The crossguard is of high quality and the blade decoration is an interesting departure for the more commonly observed thuluth acid etching, again better photos would help in this case.

Unfortunately I also suspect the hilt is a more modern addition.

An interesting piece, but I have some doubts the entire piece is homogeneous to the Mahdist period.

[CNK1]

Hello,

thank's for your comm !

I will promptly post new pictures of this kaskara, don't have the time and good conditions to take nice pictures....

For the hilt, it look like really homogeneous with the rest of the blade so it could be a later addition but I think really old ?

Best regards,
Clement

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Iain

Unfortunately I also suspect the hilt is a more modern addition.

An interesting piece, but I have some doubts the entire piece is homogeneous to the Mahdist period.

You have some Egyptian woodworks in Suakin exactly like the hilt.
To me it's all good, Sudanese hilt and European blade.
Very original and unique piece!!

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Kubur

You have some Egyptian woodworks in Suakin exactly like the hilt.
To me it's all good, Sudanese hilt and European blade.
Very original and unique piece!!

Have any images? I'm always happy to be wrong and certainly unusual ≠ 'fake' necessarily. But I'm a natural skeptic. certainly the hilt is not 'new' but i think the blade and cross guard pre date it.

I quite like the blade and it looks to display well. Certainly worth more research. Bits on the hilt look to be shell?

[colin henshaw]

Here is something similar from the internet...

[Iain]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Here is something similar from the internet...

Perfect, I knew I'd seen that style of work before but wasn't coming up with anything in my notes.

I'd be curious if there are any firmly dated examples or bring backs exhibiting this type of work that can be used to establish a baseline.

A check on the British Museum and Pitts River Museum collections didn't turn up anything.

[Edster]

Can anyone translate the Arabic script on the inlays? I can make out a couple of letters, but am not literate.

Regards,
Ed

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Edster

Can anyone translate the Arabic script on the inlays? I can make out a couple of letters, but am not literate.

Regards,
Ed

Friend of mine had a look and said it was a typical Koranic verse, "Victory from God"

[CNK1]

Thank's for your picts Collin ! Kubur was right

Thank's Iain for the translation !

Best regards,
Clement

[colin henshaw]

Originally Posted by Iain

I'd be curious if there are any firmly dated examples or bring backs exhibiting this type of work that can be used to establish a baseline.

Iain touches on an important point here. There are many examples of ornate, non-practical Sudanese weapons around, usually described as "Mahdist". Typically these items could be made of sheet metal, with copious inlay/decoration, crocodile skin etc., giving an exotic look. I've often had a suspicion that many at least were made/assembled after the Mahdist period for sale to Europeans... However, I have never seen solid evidence either way.

It should be borne in mind that after the Anglo-Egyptian re-conquest of the Sudan in 1898/99 enormous numbers of captured weapons existed, either from the various battles, disarmament or seizure of armouries in Omdurman.

I suppose the Blair Castle, Perthshire collection would be a good indicator, as the material was brought back at the time by Lord Tullibardine who fought in the Battle of Omdurman. Photography was not permitted when I visited some years ago, but I now see a few images have appeared on the internet...

Can anyone add to this subject ?

[corrado26]

Just a section of an interesting painting showing a kaskara in use against the 11. Hussars
corrado26

[Iain]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Iain touches on an important point here. There are many examples of ornate, non-practical Sudanese weapons around, usually described as "Mahdist". Typically these items could be made of sheet metal, with copious inlay/decoration, crocodile skin etc., giving an exotic look. I've often had a suspicion that many at least were made/assembled after the Mahdist period for sale to Europeans... However, I have never seen solid evidence either way.

It should be borne in mind that after the Anglo-Egyptian re-conquest of the Sudan in 1898/99 enormous numbers of captured weapons existed, either from the various battles, disarmament or seizure of armouries in Omdurman.

I suppose the Blair Castle, Perthshire collection would be a good indicator, as the material was brought back at the time by Lord Tullibardine who fought in the Battle of Omdurman. Photography was not permitted when I visited some years ago, but I now see a few images have appeared on the internet...

Can anyone add to this subject ?

Hi Colin, yes that's exactly what I'm getting at. Accounts like the following from 1932 in Khartum (The Mahdi of Allah: A Drama of the Sudan) make it seem like weapons done up to appeal to tourists were common.

Finally, as I do not understand any language at all, the Parsee winks at me mysteriously and produces a bundle - one that can speak for itself! In this bundle there are weapons - spears, barbaric clubs and shields, daggers that instead of sheaths are stuck into small dead crocodiles, so that the hilt protrudes from the jaws; and, above all, swords of an unmistakable form. The leather sheaths end in curious rhomboid-shaped points; the hilts in the form of a cross are studded with silver; the blade, when you draw it, is straight and broad, not a Saracen scimitar, but more like a Crusader's sword.

These weapons, too, might be faked. And, indeed, they are. Weapons like these are being offered to tourists in the mysteriously beautiful bazaar lanes of Assuan as Dervish trophies from the Sudanese battlefields.

The Indian curio dealer is standing in front of me on the lawn with a great naked sword in his hand; the gold embroidery on his little cap is sparkling in the sun and he is shouting at me words which - no matter in what strange language of the Sahibs I may happen to think - here in the Sudan I am bound to understand:
"Dervish, Sahib! El Mahdi, Sahib!"
"The sword, la espada, Sahi, Mynheer, of the Mahdi!"

Blair Castle has a great collection, but it is all quite workmanlike and there are no croc or fancy weapons on display.

Most of the Thuluth and croc pieces I've seen in museum collections like Pitts river have ascension dates from the 1920s or later. Although some thuluth peices are of course certainly Mahdist period and reached museum collections at the end of the 19th and very early 20th century like the piece linked below.

http://objects.prm.ox.ac.uk/pages/PRMUID47776.html

[ariel]

Reminds me of Elgood's story in his book about Jaipur collection. At the end of 19th century British tourists started looking for Indian "souvenirs" and it stimulated production of "old" Indian weapons. The law of supply and demand raised its ugly head again:-)

In that book he fired several shots across the bow and promised a full cannonade in the Jodhpur one.

My antennae are twitching madly:-)

[colin henshaw]

Originally Posted by Iain

Hi Colin, yes that's exactly what I'm getting at. Accounts like the following from 1932 in Khartum (The Mahdi of Allah: A Drama of the Sudan) make it seem like weapons done up to appeal to tourists were common.

Finally, as I do not understand any language at all, the Parsee winks at me mysteriously and produces a bundle - one that can speak for itself! In this bundle there are weapons - spears, barbaric clubs and shields, daggers that instead of sheaths are stuck into small dead crocodiles, so that the hilt protrudes from the jaws; and, above all, swords of an unmistakable form. The leather sheaths end in curious rhomboid-shaped points; the hilts in the form of a cross are studded with silver; the blade, when you draw it, is straight and broad, not a Saracen scimitar, but more like a Crusader's sword.

These weapons, too, might be faked. And, indeed, they are. Weapons like these are being offered to tourists in the mysteriously beautiful bazaar lanes of Assuan as Dervish trophies from the Sudanese battlefields.

The Indian curio dealer is standing in front of me on the lawn with a great naked sword in his hand; the gold embroidery on his little cap is sparkling in the sun and he is shouting at me words which - no matter in what strange language of the Sahibs I may happen to think - here in the Sudan I am bound to understand:
"Dervish, Sahib! El Mahdi, Sahib!"
"The sword, la espada, Sahi, Mynheer, of the Mahdi!"

Blair Castle has a great collection, but it is all quite workmanlike and there are no croc or fancy weapons on display.

Most of the Thuluth and croc pieces I've seen in museum collections like Pitts river have ascension dates from the 1920s or later. Although some thuluth peices are of course certainly Mahdist period and reached museum collections at the end of the 19th and very early 20th century like the piece linked below.

http://objects.prm.ox.ac.uk/pages/PRMUID47776.html

A good and informative post by Iain, which advances the subject quite a bit. Nice to see firm references.

Also illustrates the importance of provenance with regard to artworks/antiquities.

[colin henshaw]

Reading Major Powell-Cotton's excellent book "In Unknown Africa" 1904, I attach an extract which is pertinent to this discussion, as it illustrates the keen awareness the Sudanese had for selling souvenirs to Europeans... The Major's visit to Khartoum and Omdurman was in 1903 on his way back to Britain, I believe.

[colin henshaw]

This sword was recently sold in England. It would appear to have been made to look even more overtly "exotic". Most likely another example of the "made for sale" genre, dating to the early part of the 20th century ? (Although from the image it does seem to have some wear).

[Iain]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

This sword was recently sold in England. It would appear to have been made to look even more overtly "exotic". Most likely another example of the "made for sale" genre, dating to the early part of the 20th century ? (Although from the image it does seem to have some wear).

I'd agree. The blade looks to be sheet steel and very crude.

[Jim McDougall]

Agree, sheet steel, and this certainly seems a piece made 'in the spirit of the Mahdist spectrum of weapons'.

It would be naïve to think that in the time of the Condominium, post Omdurman, that industrious native sellers would not fashion items for the bustling souvenier markets to satisfy occupying forces.

It seems a well known fact that often the production of certain items were even produced in Birmingham and furnished to vendors in the bazaars for such purpose. After all, Birmingham had been producing armor and such materials to Egypt for the Khedives forces long before this.

However, we do know that these 'souvenier' items which have severely clouded the integrity of the collected weaponry from Omdurman, and in the time thereafter, which was authentically used.

In fact the volume of such authentic weaponry was staggering, and the removal of much of it was seemingly a standard for British forces. Actually, as well shown by Kipling, the British military had great respect for the Ansar of the Mahdist forces as brave warriors, and collected his weapons in that regard. Certainly in the early years, even toward WWI, there was still substantial volume of authentic materials from these campaigns.

The conundrum faced by the ethnographic weapons collector is of course, how to discern whether a 'Mahdist' item is in fact an authentically collected campaign relic, or a facsimile produced for bazaar's or other commercial sale.

It must be remembered that in the time of the Khalifa, after the death of the Mahdi in 1885, there was a great push for weaponry to arm the forces, and the need to carry forward the instilled power of the Mahdi and the cause.
The use of profound embellishment in the form of 'thuluth' calligraphy was instrumental on these weapons, which in effect carried the messages and the 'magic' of the Mahdi.
In forces which were brought in from other regions, their ethnic forms of weapons were retained and even produced faithfully in Khartoum, many more ornate and thuluth embellished and intended for chiefs and tribal leaders of these groups.

Many of these unusual weapons seem to have been of somewhat dubious quality, and there is no doubt that the sheet steel and materials which had been in the shops and factories at Khartoum were used in fabrication of weapons intended more as emblems of authority to such figures. One source I recall noted that it seemed virtually every scrap of metal in the Sudan had ended up in Gordon's industrial complexes.

These are the kinds of considerations which come into play as we examine these kinds of examples, and each item must be judged on its own merits.
It is very hard to gauge from photos of course, and there seems to be few limits to the variations in weaponry which came from these times in the Sudan.

[colin henshaw]

Just to add to the mix ... here is an image of a vitrine in the Powell-Cotton Museum, showing objects the Major collected in the Beja Hills, Eastern Sudan during his trip there in the early 20th century.

Shown is a kaskara from the Hadendoa, which is of small size and quite crudely constructed, with the blade probably made from sheet steel/iron. However, I believe this weapon to be likely for indigenous use and not for sale to Europeans...

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Shown is a kaskara from the Hadendoa, which is of small size and quite crudely constructed, with the blade probably made from sheet steel/iron. However, I believe this weapon to be likely for indigenous use and not for sale to Europeans...

I agree.
You opened another topic "the mini kaskara" (and also the mini tabouka).
Obviously they were used as short shorts and they were not toys or shortened later by Europeans as some members suggested.
Here is another one and I add also my mini Ethiopian kaskara...

[colin henshaw]

This item sold in the UK a little while ago... it is the most bizarre example yet I have seen of this Sudanese souvenir genre. As such, it's appropriate for me to add an image to this old thread on the subject.

[colin henshaw]

Here is a further piece of detail regarding "souvenirs" from the Sudanese Mahdist period - I have been reading Major E A de Cosson's account of his participation in the Suakin Expedition of 1885 ("Days and Nights of Service with Sir Gerald Graham's Field Force at Suakin" published London 1886), and in it he mentions the topic of souvenirs from Eastern Sudan. I attach the relevant extracts.

It should be noted these events took place 13 years before the Battle of Omdurman...

[Iain]

Hi Colin,

An excellent bit of info, really shows the extent of this trade and of course as you say this is before the most infamous period in the British involvement in the Sudan when interest spiked in all things Madhist.

Sounds as though they were making good money as well! 5 pounds sterling in 1885 was around 590 today accounting for inflation!

[ariel]

Sorry, double posting

[ariel]

In Post 17 , the Sudanese holds a kaskara with a diamond-like blade. I have never seen such a kaskara. Have you? Artistic license was always present in iconography.

Also, I have read somewhere that returning British military personnel was allocated different space during sea voyage for the luggage, with the rank and file being the most limited. Not much diffferent from air travel now: coach vs. business classes. One can surmise that short or local market- shortened kaskaras might have been soldiers’ bringbacks.



Iain: as per Bank of Britain inflation calculator in 2017 it was £610.80. Collecting is not very profitable: today we buy kaskaras on E-Bay for about $200-300:-(((

[colin henshaw]

[QUOTE=ariel]In Post 17 , the Sudanese holds a kaskara with a diamond-like blade. I have never seen such a kaskara. Have you? Artistic license was always present in iconography.

The blade of the kaskara in post 17 appears to be artistic licence, the diamond section and sharp point seem as if copied from a European medieval sword ?

[Iain]

Originally Posted by ariel

In Post 17 , the Sudanese holds a kaskara with a diamond-like blade. I have never seen such a kaskara. Have you? Artistic license was always present in iconography.

Also, I have read somewhere that returning British military personnel was allocated different space during sea voyage for the luggage, with the rank and file being the most limited. Not much diffferent from air travel now: coach vs. business classes. One can surmise that short or local market- shortened kaskaras might have been soldiers’ bringbacks.

Hi Ariel,

I agree with Colin, the illustrated kaskara is artistic license. The guard and pommel are taken from a typical European sword rather than a kaskara.

Iain: as per Bank of Britain inflation calculator in 2017 it was £610.80. Collecting is not very profitable: today we buy kaskaras on E-Bay for about $200-300:-(((

I was using the 2018 index. Sadly the price of kaskara, at least good ones, is also inflating. $300 would be a nice surprise these days for an old one!