Gunong, goo'na for comment and a lot of questions

[Interested Party]

I picked this up a couple years ago and have been debating what to do with it. I originally thought it might be a fragment of a broken kris and it was cheap so I picked it up. I am a sucker for laminated steel. After a little researching I found the style was relatively common. Age I don't want to hazard a guess? Condition; no sheath, bad job of rehilting the blade (used epoxy), the blade is also highly patinated with a slightly spurred tip. Overall length around 14", blade 9 1/4". Wood handle highly patinaed, no hard finish such as polyurethane, some chatoyancy. Cast brass ferule, brass guard with the lip of the blade slightly proud on the side of the main cutting edge. This seems fairly common as I have found a few pictures of similarly hilted gunongs in this style. The balance feels very tip heavy, but in reality is only at the third bend (is luk appropriate here). The blade has 7 bends and seems laminated. Now the odd part if you look at the detail pictures of the blade below there seems to be a yellow metal in the occlusions left by the forging process that have not tarnished in the last few years, though the blade has been well oiled...Research material is hard to come for me on Philipine and Moro weapons particularly daggers. Cato had nothing to say about gunongs. I have attached the relevant portions of Herbert W Krieger's book.

So here are the questions.
1) Age
2)Handle. I have not been able to find out about this shape. I have seen quite a few pictured in threads:
Numerous examples in http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5732
Post 21 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=gunong
A beautiful example in http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=gunong
Was this style of handle steadily produced though less popular, or regional and/or of a specific time period?
3) What do you think of the blade?
4) What would you all do with this piece? Clean? Clean, polish the blade and etch? If the etch is good would you re hilt with a cutlers resin and seat the handle snuggly as it should be?
5) Any more suggestions for research matterial in Pinay and Moro arms other than Edwin R. Bastula's book that I can seem to find?

All comments are welcome. Thanks as always for viewing.
IP

[RobT]

Hi Interested Party,

Your dagger goes by a number of names that I am aware of; gunong, puñal, puñal de kris (or creese), belt kris. These daggers are Moro weapons. The general consensus is that they were originally designed as last resort hideaways tucked inside the blouse. I really like them and have a good number of examples. What follows are my answers to your questions. Hopefully, Ferguson will weigh in.
Age: If you notice, the curves of the center ridge follow those of the edge. This means that the blade was forged around a mandrel in traditional fashion. The blade could easily be 19th century. It could just as easily be a 20th century blade made in the traditional manner.
Hilt: Although the hilt shape is a bit unusual, it isn’t too far from the norm and I think it is most likely 19th century. It is well fitted to the ferrule and guard which are of traditional style and all three components appear to belong together.
Blade: As far as the profile goes, the blade is as good as it gets. The only way it could be better than shown is if it turns out to be mechanical damascus (which is very likely).
Restoration: If you think that you can get the blade loose without damaging any of the components, by all means do so. Epoxy is tough stuff so, if you have a means to defeat it without damaging anything, we would all like to know about it. Re-affixing the hilt with cutler’s resin or any easily removed fixative is the way to go.
If the blade were mine, I would follow this procedure: Before cleaning the blade I personally would TOTALLY immerse it in Evapo-rust for 24 hours. (If you don’t totally immerse the blade, the Evapo-rust will etch a line in the part of the blade not covered and that line will be darn near impossible to get out). Also note that, If you lay the blade on any Evapo-rust soaked material (as is recommended by the manufacturer), the Evapo-rust will etch the material pattern into the blade if it is left too long. Totally immersing the blade will remove any rust and also show if there is any damascus pattern. Be aware that the Evapo-rust will turn the blade grey. This can be polished out by hand rubbing with a russet brown 3M abrasive pad which will also remove any black rust that the Evapo-rust didn’t get. The hand rubbing is time consuming, so be patient. Once the blade is bright and shiny again, coat it liberally with a 3% nital solution. This will bring out the damascus pattern clearly once again. Oil or wax the blade to protect it.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Rick]

I believe this one was exhibited in the History of Steel and shown in the catalog.
As you can see, the separation of the blade and guard is similar to your example.

[Ian]

Ip,

Now that you have epoxied the hilt to the tang I would not try to undo it. The risk of trauma to the hilt is considerable. As long as the hilt is fixed firmly in the correct orientation, I'd leave it be.

This is an old blade and I would go slowly in cleaning and polishing it. I'm not a big fan of using hydrochloric acid (aka muriatic acid) which I believe is the active ingredient in Evapo-rust. I prefer mechanical removal of rust or stains. I would start with 220 grit sandpaper to get the rust off, then move to 400 and 800 grit for polishing. The sandpaper won't get in every little nook and cranny but I think it is safer than cleaning with a very strong acid.

To etch, a lot of people use ferric chloride (the circuit board etchant that Rick referred to). It gives a good result, although the darker areas can take on brown tones which some people dislike. Alternatives are lime or lemon juice, or vinegar. These take longer than ferric chloride to do the job. Vinegar (acetic acid) also work well but not always. Nital is hard to get. Suppliers are reluctant to ship it in concentrations of 5% or greater because it is potentially explosive. You may need to be a chemist or work for a steel company or university to get your hands on some in the U.S. It is also strongly acidic and must be handled carefully.

Don't forget the hilt. The brass ferrule needs a polish and the banati(?) wood hilt could do with a gentle clean with soap and water and a little teak oil to stop it drying out and cracking. Once the oil has penetrated, I usually seal the hilt with a micro-silicon wax (e.g. Renaissance Wax).

Good luck and I look forward to seeing the result!

[Sajen]

You have a very old gunong, most probably 19th century. What are the hints for this assumption? The elongated handle is typical for older gunongs IMHO. The casted ferrule in one piece with the guard is another hint. Also the blade form let me think like this.
The advice from Ian seems to be a good one but I would try to loosen the hilt and refit it properly.
Compare with three similar examples from my own collection.
Let us see what you will do with it!

Regards,
Detlef

[Interested Party]

Thanks all for the help.

Detlef Thanks. From looking through old threads and the example in Krieger I had begun to wonder if that handle shape wasn't a cue to date gunongs.

Ian I was not the one who epoxied the handle. I have a few ethnographic knives I have picked up over the years with this problem most are heavier made than the more refined taper to the edge this dagger has. Almost all of them have some play in the handle. I have been thinking one day I will fire up the torch and try to heat them gently to 250 F and see if that is enough to loosen them completely. I am worried about splitting old woods if anyone has any advice on this subject.

I have been thinking a vinegar etch. I have had good results with 5 coats of brushed on strained lime juice with a wash and light polish between coats using a leather buff cloth and cerium oxide as well. Both give a mellow subtle contrast. I am nervous about ferric chloride and as you said I have to ask a friend for a favor for Nital. Plus my sheds get to at least 130-140 F in the summer, and I do not want to store it in my house. If I get decide to use Nital maybe I will dig a hole and bury a 5 gallon bucket with a screw on lid for storage of volatile materials. And cover the whole thing with a scrap of plywood to keep it cool. I have also read that Nital can work its way deep into the softer layers of a blade.

I usually use linseed, boiled or raw depending on the application. I also have tsung oil, and mineral oil laying around for when I need a different look. I have been experimenting on using a blend of tsung and linseed oil lately. My next experiment will be trying that mix with a few drops of turpentine for added penetration. The turpentine usually yellows a bit though. That was a trick to antique maple when I was a kid.

Rick I can see a scar in the guard where the blade used to sit. It seems when many people rehilt an old blade that originally used cutlers resin they do not clean out the old grove enough to allow room for both the blade and the new medium. I use drill rod blanks made into router bits in successively longer lengths to clean the hole.

RobT Thanks for the detailed response. The curved center line can be ground in as well. I did some serpentine blades as a tween that I ground the curving line in using a stock removal process. Next time I see my Dad I will try to snap a photo. What can't be hidden is when an already finished straight blade is modified to be serpentine in profile.

Muradic acid. I have always been curious as to how it would etch steel. I did not know it was the same as hydrochloric acid. It is readily available to remove lime stains from masonry. You no longer need special permission to buy it as it is no longer a popular ingredient in Methamphetamine (20 years ago I got surprised by a localized thunderstorm and stained a freshly laid rock wall and had to try to figure out how to clean up the mess. That was how I learned about the ban on muriatic acid sales and the connection to drug labs.) Does anyone use hydrochloric acid as their preferred etchant? Or as a backup?


I am surprised that no one has mentioned the yellow metal in the occlusions. I found that feature very odd. They can be seen with the naked eye. I just magnified them to make examination online easier.

Thanks again for the advice. It is very much appreciated.
IP

[Rick]

[QUOTE=Interested Party;281711]
Rick I can see a scar in the guard where the blade used to sit.[QUOTE]

IP: there is no scar on the guard, mate.
Clean as a whistle.