Serbian Kraishnik or Beduin Shashka?

ariel · 7th July 2007, 09:38 PM

Some time ago, Miyamoto taught me ( and all of us) that a sword I, in my ignorance, thought was Beduin, was in fact from the Balkans.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=beduin+sword
Here is my new arrival, and I hope that is exactly what he had in mind.
There are 2 swords on the first 2 pics: a typical Beduin from Negev/Sinai on top, and the newbie on the bottom. Superficially, they look quite similar, especially the handles.
But there are major differences: the newbie has much more carefully defined handle, better decoration, straight ed single-edged blade with multiple " caucasian-type" incised motives, the blade is unsharpened for the first 2/3 of its length, the fittings are very much European, and each is hallmarked "P.V."
This in NOT a primitive Beduin work!
I think this is exactly the sword described by Miyamoto, from Voina Kraina!!!
Questions:
- is my attribution reasonable?
- what is the age of the sword?
- what is its true origin? (purely local? influenced by the Caucasus?)
- have you ever seen a sword with such a "hyper-Indian" ricasso?
- is the blade local or imported?/
- any info on who or what might be P.V.?

Joe · 8th July 2007, 03:52 AM

Does your new sword have a square tip?

Also, what are its dimensions?

ariel · 8th July 2007, 04:27 AM

This is embarrassing: I do need new glasses...
No, it is not a Burmese Dha: look at the new pic.
The sword is 34 " total: 29" blade and 5" handle. the blade is 1" wide and 3/16" thck

Joe · 8th July 2007, 06:13 AM

Ah, I see. It was the shape of the chape that made me suspicious.

Anyway, very nice sword. That handle looks quite peculiar, but I like it. How does it feel in the hand?

RSWORD · 8th July 2007, 12:33 PM

In looking at the markings on the blade with the intermittent S curve and other marking, the other marking looks familiar to me. Have I not seen this marking on some Bosnian dagger blades?

Marc · 8th July 2007, 04:57 PM

Well, Rick, maybe you have seen them in a recent thread that dealt with a totally different subject... but that ended up showing some blades that might now look familiar, HERE, please scroll down to the last couple of posts.

The hilt of the so-called "filipino military machetes" is quite characteristic, and different than the case that ariel is showing, but over the years I've seen enough variations on those to not to take anything for granted. The blade was also the subject of some variation, specially regarding the point, but this decoration was something quite characteristic. The flat-ended scabbards are somewhat characteristic, as well. These were non-regular military swords, privately purchased and consequently featuring a wide range of variation, but the drag at the end of the scabbard’s chape should in this case be something to consider as well.

I’m afraid I don’t have enough graphic documentation to support this case as strongly as I would like, but at least I’ll try to I’ll leave you some examples for your consideration.

7th July 2007, 09:38 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Serbian Kraishnik or Beduin Shashka? Some time ago, Miyamoto taught me ( and all of us) that a sword I, in my ignorance, thought was Beduin, was in fact from the Balkans. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=beduin+sword Here is my new arrival, and I hope that is exactly what he had in mind. There are 2 swords on the first 2 pics: a typical Beduin from Negev/Sinai on top, and the newbie on the bottom. Superficially, they look quite similar, especially the handles. But there are major differences: the newbie has much more carefully defined handle, better decoration, straight ed single-edged blade with multiple " caucasian-type" incised motives, the blade is unsharpened for the first 2/3 of its length, the fittings are very much European, and each is hallmarked "P.V." This in NOT a primitive Beduin work! I think this is exactly the sword described by Miyamoto, from Voina Kraina!!! Questions: - is my attribution reasonable? - what is the age of the sword? - what is its true origin? (purely local? influenced by the Caucasus?) - have you ever seen a sword with such a "hyper-Indian" ricasso? - is the blade local or imported?/ - any info on who or what might be P.V.? Attached Images

8th July 2007, 04:27 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	This is embarrassing: I do need new glasses... No, it is not a Burmese Dha: look at the new pic. The sword is 34 " total: 29" blade and 5" handle. the blade is 1" wide and 3/16" thck Attached Images

8th July 2007, 04:57 PM	#6
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Well, Rick, maybe you have seen them in a recent thread that dealt with a totally different subject... but that ended up showing some blades that might now look familiar, HERE, please scroll down to the last couple of posts. The hilt of the so-called "filipino military machetes" is quite characteristic, and different than the case that ariel is showing, but over the years I've seen enough variations on those to not to take anything for granted. The blade was also the subject of some variation, specially regarding the point, but this decoration was something quite characteristic. The flat-ended scabbards are somewhat characteristic, as well. These were non-regular military swords, privately purchased and consequently featuring a wide range of variation, but the drag at the end of the scabbard’s chape should in this case be something to consider as well. I’m afraid I don’t have enough graphic documentation to support this case as strongly as I would like, but at least I’ll try to I’ll leave you some examples for your consideration. Attached Images

8th July 2007, 03:52 AM	#2
Joe Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: McDonough, GA Posts: 48	Does your new sword have a square tip? Also, what are its dimensions?

8th July 2007, 06:13 AM	#4
Joe Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: McDonough, GA Posts: 48	Ah, I see. It was the shape of the chape that made me suspicious. Anyway, very nice sword. That handle looks quite peculiar, but I like it. How does it feel in the hand?

8th July 2007, 12:33 PM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	In looking at the markings on the blade with the intermittent S curve and other marking, the other marking looks familiar to me. Have I not seen this marking on some Bosnian dagger blades?